intentional leaving the playing surface

[Hardwood]

Player A1, while dribbling, drives to the baseline and jumps toward the OOB area and before touching the floor, throws a pass behind the backboard, along the baseline to A2 in the opposite corner. A1 lands out of bounds and in a) returns immediately the playing area, or in b) remains out of bounds and runs the baseline toward the opposite corner. This is clearly a set play designed to deliver the ball to A2. Violation for intentionally leaving the playing surface?

Hardwood

[Grail]

Originally Posted by Hardwood

Player A1, while dribbling, drives to the baseline and jumps toward the OOB area and before touching the floor, throws a pass behind the backboard, along the baseline to A2 in the opposite corner. A1 lands out of bounds and in a) returns immediately the playing area, or in b) remains out of bounds and runs the baseline toward the opposite corner. This is clearly a set play designed to deliver the ball to A2. Violation for intentionally leaving the playing surface?

Hardwood

If you call this a violation for intentionally leaving the playing surface, you have to call every attempt to save the ball from going out of bounds a violation. OK, not every one, but the ones where the player leaps out of bounds and tosses the ball back onto the court.

Situation B is a violation.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Grail

If you call this a violation for intentionally leaving the playing surface, you have to call every attempt to save the ball from going out of bounds a violation. OK, not every one, but the ones where the player leaps out of bounds and tosses the ball back onto the court.

Situation B is a violation.

Actually, I believe sitch b) is a T, for not returning to the court in a timely manner. I'm sure one of our esteemed (really old) members will be along to post the exact reference, since I don't have my books here.

I would not call the violation in a).

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Hardwood

Player A1, while dribbling, drives to the baseline and jumps toward the OOB area and before touching the floor, throws a pass behind the backboard, along the baseline to A2 in the opposite corner. A1 lands out of bounds and in a) returns immediately the playing area, or in b) remains out of bounds and runs the baseline toward the opposite corner. This is clearly a set play designed to deliver the ball to A2. Violation for intentionally leaving the playing surface?

Hardwood

I would have to see the contents of the play in person. From what you describe in (a) it appears his/her momentum took them OOB play on situation. In b violation.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by truerookie

I would have to see the contents of the play in person. From what you describe in (a) it appears his/her momentum took them OOB play on situation. In b violation.

You're right for (a) and wrong for (b). Delaying your return after being legally OOB is a technical foul, not a violation. NFHS rule 10-3-3.

[truerookie]

Rule 9-3 Penalty.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You're right for (a) and wrong for (b). Delaying your return after being legally OOB is a technical foul, not a violation. NFHS rule 10-3-3.

Ok, I understood it from the perspective that the player momentum took them OOB and he/she took it as as opportunity to use it as an advantage. Thus, violation. 10-3-3. I interpret as a DS throw-in (legally) OOB and they delay the return upon completing the throw-in.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Rule 9-3 Penalty.

Rule 9-3 refers to a player going OOB for an "unauthorized reason". Saving a ball is never an unauthorized reason.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Rule 9-3 refers to a player going OOB for an "unauthorized reason". Saving a ball is never an unauthorized reason.

It was not a save but a pass in the original post.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by truerookie

It was not a save but a pass in the original post.

So?

There's no rule stating that you can't legally go OOB to make a pass.

The difference is being legally or illegally OOB. Being legally OOB is nuthin'. Being illegally OOB is a violation.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

So?

There's no rule stating that you can't legally go OOB to make a pass.

The difference is being legally or illegally OOB. Being legally OOB is nuthin'. Being illegally OOB is a violation.

Ok, Got it!!

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

So?

There's no rule stating that you can't legally go OOB to make a pass.

The difference is being legally or illegally OOB. Being legally OOB is nuthin'. Being illegally OOB is a violation.

Believe me, I understand truerookie's and Hardwood's confusion, because I had difficulty grasping the difference between authorized and unauthorized at first. But try not to overthink this - in the original play, the pass was made while the player still had inbounds status, so that part is legal. The momentum carried them OOB, and that's also considered an authorized reason, as long as they then come back inbounds. A good example of an unauthorized reason would be purposely going OOB (not from momentum, but under control and on purpose) to avoid a screen set inbounds.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

- in the original play, the pass was made while the player still had inbounds status, so that part is legal. The momentum carried them OOB, and that's also considered an authorized reason, as long as they then come back inbounds.

That's the key right there. The player committed a legal act(pass,save,shot,etc.) while still having in-bounds status. Therefore--->legal play. His momentum then took him OOB, but he immediately returned in-bounds. Again---->legal play.

If the player didn't immediately return in-bounds, when able to, after being legally OOB as above----->technical foul.

If a player simply goes OOB to gain some kind of advantage(set an illegal screen, to avoid a screen, to get away from a defender, etc.)---->violation.

[bigdogrunnin]

Jurrassic Ref,

Did the rule change about 2-3 years ago, where before if you ran OOB to avoid screens, etc. it was a "T," but now only a violation?

What is the rule reference for that situation? Thanks.

[deecee]

so who here would call that T?