Correctable errors

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

That's why my eyes hit the scoreboard after every foul. And if the team fouls aren't posted on the scoreboard then I track them in my head. We're the ones who have to answer to the boss after all is said and done.

Still I've had it happen where I was counting, thought we should be shooting two, but the table said 1+1. I went to the table, had them recount and recount again. They had 9 fouls. We shoot 1+1. A1 missed the first. B rebounds, outlets to midcourt, where they call timeout. (They were now down by 1 with under 5 seconds to go). B draws up a play for a winning two pointer. At the end of the timeout, the neutral scorer says..."Uh, ref, I messed up. It should have been two." Crap. We go back to the line for A1's 2nd shot...which is made. B's winning play is now only good for a tie and they've already burned the timeout.

[Mwanr1]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Still I've had it happen where I was counting, thought we should be shooting two, but the table said 1+1. I went to the table, had them recount and recount again. They had 9 fouls. We shoot 1+1. A1 missed the first. B rebounds, outlets to midcourt, where they call timeout. (They were now down by 1 with under 5 seconds to go). B draws up a play for a winning two pointer. At the end of the timeout, the neutral scorer says..."Uh, ref, I messed up. It should have been two." Crap. We go back to the line for A1's 2nd shot...which is made. B's winning play is now only good for a tie and they've already burned the timeout.

Wow, who was the home team? What did you say or explain to Team B's coach?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Mwanr1

Wow, who was the home team? What did you say or explain to Team B's coach?

It was a men's league on a neutral court. The "captain/coach" did say much about it because he was aware that we double checked and he knew that the other team deserved the FT.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Still I've had it happen where I was counting, thought we should be shooting two, but the table said 1+1. I went to the table, had them recount and recount again. They had 9 fouls. We shoot 1+1. A1 missed the first. B rebounds, outlets to midcourt, where they call timeout. (They were now down by 1 with under 5 seconds to go). B draws up a play for a winning two pointer. At the end of the timeout, the neutral scorer says..."Uh, ref, I messed up. It should have been two." Crap. We go back to the line for A1's 2nd shot...which is made. B's winning play is now only good for a tie and they've already burned the timeout.

Camron, I'm not dumping on you but how can you go to the table and then walk away without a final, definitive answer? Simply asking the official scorer (I'm assuming that's the "neutral scorer") to show you each and every foul in his book for that half and then asking the unofficial scorer (apparently there was one) if he agrees would have prevented any subsequent problem. If the scorebook *shows* 9 fouls and you agree that is correct then you're going to shoot 1&1. If you had definite knowledge the scorer missed a foul then fix it right then & shoot the 2. In any event settle it completely before you leave. Then when he buzzes you back over the scorer will need to explain exactly where the 10th foul came from and why it wasn't there when you and he went over this the first time.

This way your correctable error would have been avoided.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Camron, I'm not dumping on you but how can you go to the table and then walk away without a final, definitive answer?

probably about the same way an official can over-rule his partner's call without getting his input....

Who cares about a final, definitive answer? Don't wanna interrupt the ol' game flow.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Camron, I'm not dumping on you but how can you go to the table and then walk away without a final, definitive answer? Simply asking the official scorer (I'm assuming that's the "neutral scorer") to show you each and every foul in his book for that half and then asking the unofficial scorer (apparently there was one) if he agrees would have prevented any subsequent problem. If the scorebook *shows* 9 fouls and you agree that is correct then you're going to shoot 1&1. If you had definite knowledge the scorer missed a foul then fix it right then & shoot the 2. In any event settle it completely before you leave. Then when he buzzes you back over the scorer will need to explain exactly where the 10th foul came from and why it wasn't there when you and he went over this the first time.

This way your correctable error would have been avoided.

There was only one scorer...no other book to double check. I don't remember now how he discovered the error, but he did. Unless you plan on keeping the book entirely on your own while running down the floor, you'll never be able to prevent all bookkeeping errors....and even if you did keep the book, you'd still miss something somewhere.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I don't remember now how he discovered the error, but he did.

So after you stopped the game to determine exactly what the foul count was he discovered an error and you don't know how. But you decided he had the last word.

Great.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

So after you stopped the game to determine exactly what the foul count was he discovered an error and you don't know how. But you decided he had the last word.

Great.

No, you misunderstood me. I said I do not remember the details of the scorebook error. This was 10+ years ago. Forgive me for not remembering all the details of the error. The point remains...you'll never be able to prevent all bookkeeping errors.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

No, you misunderstood me. I said I do not remember the details of the scorebook error. This was 10+ years ago. Forgive me for not remembering all the details of the error. The point remains...you'll never be able to prevent all bookkeeping errors.

That's where we disagree.

My point remains that you should always be able to prevent correctable errors.

Further, you should never go to the table to resolve a scorekeeper's error and walk away without a final, definitive answer.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

That's where we disagree.

Further, you should never go to the table to resolve a scorekeeper's error and walk away without a final, definitive answer.

How can you absolutely, 100%, guarantee that that answer will be correct?

You can't. Even if the book fully crosschecks and everything adds up, it's possible that is is still wrong. Perhaps they recorded a foul on the wrong player/team...in the first minute of the game. Unless you remember every thing that happens on the floor (from beginning to end), there will be some errors that you can't fix.

Bear in mind that I am more than willing to stop and analyze the book if need be. I've taken several minutes on occassion to straighten out a poorly kept book to determine if we were in the bonus or not, if a player really has 5 fouls or not, what the score should be. But, when it all looks in order and adds up, you may not be able to find the error so easily.