Travel or not??

[jshock]

Player A receives an outlet pass, pivots, and attempts to throw a long pass down the court, in the pass attempt the ball slips out during the pass attempt. Player A retreives the ball after moving three steps. Travel or not??

[Dan_ref]

Depends on if you judged the player to have fumbled the ball or passed the ball.

If a fumble (accidental loss of control when he unintentionally drops it) then it's legal. You can always recover your own fumble. If a pass (movement of ball when a player throws, bats or rolls ball) then it's a travel.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Depends on if you judged the player to have fumbled the ball or passed the ball.

If a fumble (accidental loss of control when he unintentionally drops it) then it's legal. You can always recover your own fumble. If a pass (movement of ball when a player throws, bats or rolls ball) then it's a travel.

Even if A1 never dribbled? Catch with two hands, the ball goes somewhere but A1 doesn't touch it, three steps, catch with two hands. If you call it a pass, that's illegal? Hmmmmm....

[SamIAm]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Even if A1 never dribbled? Catch with two hands, the ball goes somewhere but A1 doesn't touch it, three steps, catch with two hands. If you call it a pass, that's illegal? Hmmmmm....

I agree with you and as we both know, you are correct. With dribble still available, it depends on whether the ball bounced.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by SamIAm

I agree with you and as we both know, you are correct.

I quit knowing I was correct a long, long time ago. Especially when it's Dan or Woddy or Tiny or BITS that's doing the correcting (so you guys are back on the list now, OKAY?? Sheez...). That's why I worded it Jeopardy-style.

[jshock]

To continue the discussion on the initial Travel or not?? situation, would it be a travel if the player would have dribbled the ball, picked up the dribble, then during the passing attempt loses, slips out, or fumbles the pass?

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

I quit knowing I was correct a long, long time ago. Especially when it's Dan or Woddy or Tiny or BITS that's doing the correcting (so you guys are back on the list now, OKAY?? Sheez...).

So, what am I? Chopped liver?

In the original sitch, it sounds like he already made the decision - " the ball slips out during the pass attempt". That sounds like a fumble, so the ball can be recovered without penalty.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Even if A1 never dribbled? Catch with two hands, the ball goes somewhere but A1 doesn't touch it, three steps, catch with two hands. If you call it a pass, that's illegal? Hmmmmm....

Not sure what your sitch is.

If A1 doesn't cleanly catch the pass it's a fumble. He can recover. In this case there is no pass.

If A1 holds the ball & then passes it he has traveled if his pivot foot is lifted & returns to the floor and the ball doesn't touch the floor before he recovers it. This is the illegal play I had in mind..."caught his own pass".

If the ball hits the floor first it's a dribble and legal unless his pivot foot was lifted before the pass (ie start of dribble).

If he doesn't move his pivot foot then it can't be a travel regardless of whether he passes the ball to himself or fumbles & recovers it.

[Nu1]

As you described, A1 caught the ball, pivoted, and threw the ball down court.
If the ball hits the floor before A1 touches it, it's legal. If A1 does not allow the ball to touch the floor first, it is illegal.

However, would it be a travel or an illegal dribble? It seems the rules would indicate a thrown ball that is retrieved, that didn't hit the floor, would be (a) an illegal dribble, if the player's pivot foot was on the floor, and (b) a travel, if the player's pivot foot was off the floor.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Nu1

As you described, A1 caught the ball, pivoted, and threw the ball down court.
If the ball hits the floor before A1 touches it, it's legal. If A1 does not allow the ball to touch the floor first, it is illegal.

However, would it be a travel or an illegal dribble? It seems the rules would indicate a thrown ball that is retrieved, that didn't hit the floor, would be (a) an illegal dribble, if the player's pivot foot was on the floor [when the ball was thrown], and (b) a travel, if the player's pivot foot was off the floor [when the ball was thrown].

[I added a phrase to your post for clarity.]

You are right. What most in this thread have been calling traveling is really an illegal dribble violation.

See the following case play:
4.15.4 SITUATION E: (a) A1 tosses the ball from one hand to the other while keeping his/her pivot foot in contact with the floor; or (b) A1 throws the ball over the head of B1 and then takes several steps before catching it. RULING: Legal in (a), but an illegal dribble violation in (b). In (b), since the ball did not touch the floor, the tossing and subsequent catch is an illegal dribble. (9-5)