Good job FIBA officials

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

The 2004 team had Tim Duncan, Allan Iverson, Lebron James, Dwayne Wade and Carmelo Anthony, who are all projected to be future NBA Hall-of-famers. They also had at least 2 other all-stars in Amare Stoudamire and Stephon Marbury. That team went 5-3 at the Olympics, losing to Puerto Rico, Lithuania and Argentina, and barely beating Greece by 6. They had a Hall-of-Fame coach in Larry Brown too.

The bottom line is that the US is now one of the best teams in the world, and on any given day.......

Might as well accept it.

Yeah, but the entire team was not that way like the original Dream Team. Other than Christian Lathner, who is not a Hall of Famer on that team?

Even after that team, many of the All-Stars of the entire league were on the USA team and this is why it took last Olympics to lose a game. Lamar Odom was on that team. Odom might be a good player, but he is not close to being a superstar or close to it. You had a lot of guys that for whatever reasons decide they did not want to play.

If you watched the Greece game, it was obvious the Greece team played together and knew who was the go to guy. I am not sure the USA had that same chemistry. USA is a lot better, but these guys have to have more time playing together than a couple of months to get that consistency. The Greece team played other tournaments together and they know what to do. Also they play under different rules sets and this can and I believe causes problems.

These are not excuses, they are just facts. We can what if all night and day, but the US team got beat fair and square. It is just harder to beat teams that have played together and understand their roles. This is the case in HS, college or the pros. In HS you can tell the teams that played together through grammar school to their senior year in HS. It is not always the most talented teams that win.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Even after that team, many of the All-Stars of the entire league were on the USA team and this is why it took last Olympics to lose a game.

Um, no, the 2002 team had Tracy McGrady, Elton Brand, Reggie Miller, Jermaine O'neal, Paul Pearce, Ben Wallace, Michael Finlay and Baron Davis. All were NBA all-stars. That team lost to Argentina, Yugoslavia and Spain...and barely beat Greece by 6....and finished sixth in the Worlds Championship. And they played in Indy too iirc.

How many NBA all-stars are on the teams that are beating these NBA all-star teams now? Greece, for instance? Greece didn't even have an NBA player, let alone an NBA all-star.

Know what is funny? I'd rather watch an NBA all-star team play in the Worlds Championship than watch an NBA ball game. To me, it just kinda seems more like..... basketball.

Edited to add another view:
http://www.suntimes.com/output/telan...pt-rick03.html

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by bcma

Lack pf credibility why, BKTBALLREF???

I referred to his lack of credibiltiy because he states there's controversy in every NBA playoff game. What a stupid comment on his part and how unfortunate that you can't read what I wrote and comprehend it.

Have you ever seen a game in Greece? Like Panathinaikos-Olympiakos??? Do you know how Greek fans react during the game?

Excuse me but are these games being played in Greece? I couldn't care less what goes on in Greece. I'm refering to the FEEBLE officials that I've seen officiate in these games.

Say what you will but the level of intensity at these "World Championship Games' doesn't compare to the NBA, the NCAA tourney, or even an ACC contest between Duke and Carolina.

A NBA game compared with that is a child´s play.

Yeah, I guess that's why all the best players in Europe are leaving for the NBA and why the US players who play in Europe couldn't make it in the NBA.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bcma

Lack pf credibility why, BKTBALLREF???
Have you ever seen a game in Greece? Like Panathinaikos-Olympiakos??? Do you know how Greek fans react during the game? A NBA game compared with that is a child´s play.

According to your first post, you're from Portugal.

Have you ever seen an NBA game in the US in person?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

According to your first post, you're from Portugal.

Have you ever seen an NBA game in the US in person?

He's from Portugal? Nevermind. I should have known to ignore him. Probably doesn't even know who Duke and Carolina are.

[Oz Referee]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Yeah, I guess that's why all the best players in Europe are leaving for the NBA.

Do you really believe that the non-US players that try out (and make) the NBA do so simply because it is the bast basketball competition in the world? You must be kidding! One of the main reasons is the amount of money they get paid.


And back to the original start of this thread - FIBA referees are amongst the best in the world (as are NBA and Div 1 NCAA refs). Here's a thought to consider - most Americans don't give a sh!t about FIBA competitions (Olympics, WC etc). Well, the majority of non-Americans couldn't care less about the NCAA and NBA. Not all great FIBA referees have any desire to even try out to referee NBA or NCAA.

[bcma]

Yes, i am from Portugal. Yes i have seen NBA games live and yes i know what is Duke and Carolina. In fact i even know that the US coach in the WC is the head coach of Duke.
The problem of US basketball is that tries to ignore everybody outside the US. That´s why the US team lost with Greece. Because they toughtt the game would be easy. Because they tought they were the best but on the court they lost fair and square.
Us team has the best players individually in the world, no doubt about it but as a team they suck. And they are knowing this the hard way. But the US team is a young team and has some very good players, for me they are the favourites for the Olympics, if they progrss as a team.

"Yeah, I guess that's why all the best players in Europe are leaving for the NBA and why the US players who play in Europe couldn't make it in the NBA."

It´s true that the best league in the world is the NBA. And the best players in the world want to go there. To play with the best. Also the financial reasons are important. But it´s also true that some of the best european players don´t want to go to the NBA because the basketball level here in Europe is very good too. The example is Juan Carlos Navarro.

Congratulations Spain and Pau Gasol.

[BktBallRef]

You know, you two guys miss the reason I even replied in this thread to begin with.

Dave30 chose to crap on NBA and NCAA officials with his comment in the first post of this thread. Had he not done that, I never would have replied. It was a ridiculous comment on his part and I shot back. I'll probably shoot back the next time too.

You're entitled to your opinions but so am I. It will always be FEEBLE basketball to me. The basketball in Europe in no way compares to the level of the NBA. The champion of any given European league would finish last in any division of the NBA. College players who can't make the NBA get million dollar contracts in Europe. All start teams in these international competitions are no comparison. And the foreign FEEBLE officials that I've seen in this tourney could not officiate D1 basketball.

As for my Aussie buddy, one of your high schools played some games here last year. I officiated one of their games. I'm sad to say that their skills were under developed and their fundamentals were poor. And they got waxed by a very mediocre private school team. Worse than anything else, I don't believe a one of them bathed the entire time they were here.

[Oz Referee]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

As for my Aussie buddy, one of your high schools played some games here last year. I officiated one of their games. I'm sad to say that their skills were under developed and their fundamentals were poor. And they got waxed by a very mediocre private school team. Worse than anything else, I don't believe a one of them bathed the entire time they were here.

I'm done.

Apples and oranges - Australian public high schools do not offer any sporting scholarships, nor do Australian colleges. Plus we are only 1/10 of the population of America.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Oz Referee

Apples and oranges - Australian public high schools do not offer any sporting scholarships, nor do Australian colleges. Plus we are only 1/10 of the population of America.

Nor do they here, my friend. No schollys at our public or private high schools. If you go to private school, your parents pay for it.

No idea what the population has to do with it. You can only put 5 on the floor at a time. This particular school has an enrollment of less than 300.

[kiwiref]

You would expect anyone doing something full time to be better at that activity than a person doing the same thing part-time.
I am sure that, given the opportunity to do it full time, most FIBA officials would make it in NBA. Then again, I am sure there are NBA officials who, if they could not commit to it full-time, would not cut it at FIBA competitions.
The fact remains that overall, this WC has probably seen the best officiating yet.
I would agree with those who say that you don't pour crap on one group of officials in order to make another one look better. This goes as much for dave as it does for bktballref.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by kiwiref

You would expect anyone doing something full time to be better at that activity than a person doing the same thing part-time.
I am sure that, given the opportunity to do it full time, most FIBA officials would make it in NBA. Then again, I am sure there are NBA officials who, if they could not commit to it full-time, would not cut it at FIBA competitions.
The fact remains that overall, this WC has probably seen the best officiating yet.
I would agree with those who say that you don't pour crap on one group of officials in order to make another one look better. This goes as much for dave as it does for bktballref.

Who cares who is better? None of us are full-time officials unless you work in the NBA or some pro league somewhere in the world. This debate is about as silly as "My dad will beat your dad" discussion.

I will say this. I do not know that I saw a lot of calls from officials during the tournament called things outside of their area if you are using standards from the other major mechanics sets. I saw the Lead official calling all over the area. It made me wonder who was watching off-ball and who was watching on-ball. Also I did see a pretty basic over and back violation missed during the USA and Greece. That was a pretty basic call (my understanding the rule is the same, I could be wrong as it relates to FIBA rules) that a HS Freshman official would not miss.

I just did not get a good understanding of what guys were calling. When I would see the replay sometimes what was called and what should have been called did not always seem to match. Then again, I was sitting on my couch and they were on the court. Easy for me to say.

Peace

[Oz Referee]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Nor do they here, my friend. No schollys at our public or private high schools. If you go to private school, your parents pay for it.

No idea what the population has to do with it. You can only put 5 on the floor at a time. This particular school has an enrollment of less than 300.

That's crap - I have a friend that played basketball in the USA. He went to a private high school in New York on a full scholarship. The school payed for his education and he lived with a host family.

As to population - if you have 250+ million people to pick from surely you will get better players (and referees) then if you only have 20 million to pick from.


Having said that - I agree with Rut (not something I say often). Considering the different rules and mechanics and style of basketball - the conversation of who is better is a little pointless.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Oz Referee

That's crap - I have a friend that played basketball in the USA. He went to a private high school in New York on a full scholarship. The school payed for his education and he lived with a host family.

I think the point you are missing is the fact that many private schools require payment from parents in this country. This is why a lot of these schools are all one race and one class of people. Of course you cannot say that some people do not get some scholarships, but those might only go so far. If you remember the movie "Hoop Dreams" (It was on ESPN Classic last night BTW), there is a school not far from me called St. Joseph High School. This is a Catholic school and if you remember there was a kid from the movie that attended this school and his parents struggled to pay his way. Now this was about two African-Americans kids that came from lower income households and it was a struggle for those kids to attend that private Catholic school. I also work a lot of Catholic and Private schools and those schools often struggle to find good athletes because they have a smaller pool of kids that are eligible to participate based on ability to pay tuition.

Peace

[dave30]

Let's start over and see if anybody can understand my point. I wasn't crapping on NBA and NCAA officials. I was merely commenting on the FIBA officials doing a good job of managing the game and keeping the flow. It isn't because FIBA officials are better, I think it is because the style of basketball is more enjoyable to watch in my humble opinion. NBA officials call the game the way the NBA wants them to call the game and they are very good at it. FIBA officials call the way FIBA wants them to call the game and they too are very good. FIBA seems to allow more contact that doesn't really affect the play and I like that. Too many games in the NBA playoffs were decided late by touch fouls in the final seconds of games. Bowen (two times against Dallas), Nowitski (against Wade on a drive at the end of a game) for example. The NBA used to let players decide the game on really close calls at the end of a game. As a fan, I don't like to see the game decided on the foul line unless the foul is obvious. That's just the way I see it. I like to read message boards of teams after playoff games. At least half the posts in the NBA boards are about close calls that each team thinks they got screwed on. People talking about the FIBA games rarely mention the officiating. I know it comes from fans, but if nobody is mentioning the officiating, that's a good thing. When Mark Cuban went on Letterman he talked about his part in getting the officials to really concentrate on slight bumps and hand checks so the LeBron James and Dirk Nowitski's can drive to the basket more freely. When it is called that way, I think there are too many fouls. I don't like games where each team shoots 35+ free throws. The game bogs down and gets ugly. The FIBA games just seem to have more of a natural "basketball flow" to them. As for the passion, I think it is equal. Everybody wants to win. Did you see Gasol in tears after Spain won, there is passion there, just as in the NBA.