Talking to coaches

[CLH]

Ok let's admit it guys, we like to see the whole play and if the contact doesn't affect the play we let it go. That's what we're taught as we move up.

Now what do we say to coaches when they wanna know why that wasn't a foul, when we all really know by rule it is. I guess I'm asking what to say when we're in a possible "AND 1" situation and the ball goes in, and we allow the contact and play on.

CLH

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by CLH

Ok let's admit it guys, we like to see the whole play and if the contact doesn't affect the play we let it go. That's what we're taught as we move up.

Now what do we say to coaches when they wanna know why that wasn't a foul, when we all really know by rule it is. I guess I'm asking what to say when we're in a possible "AND 1" situation and the ball goes in, and we allow the contact and play on.

CLH

What rulebook says all contact is a foul?

"Coach, as you know, not all contact is a foul. Your player wasn't affected by the bump. We'll try to call it the same both ways on those."

Z

[btaylor64]

Dealing with coaches for me is one of the hardest things to do. I don't want to just ignore them all night, although I don't want to talk to them all night as well. One big thing is knowing your audience. If you know the personality of the coach then you can figure out how to appeal to their ego and let's face it all coaches have ego's.

If you believe that there was contact, but let it go because the player played through it then I would let the coach say something as long as it was in a good tone. Now if he is still talking about the play on the second and third trip down, then I would address it because he is going to start thinking that he can do that all night long and get away with it. I would probably just respond with "Coach I hear what you're saying but I feel I had a good look at the play and I didn't feel that paticular play warranted a whistle". I am sure you would get a response back from the coach and then you could either say,"Coach let's move on" or "If you saw it that way coach than I might have missed it". You should never try to be the winner in conflict resolution. You are there to diffuse it. With some coaches that is giving a T and with some it is talking to them and for some it is saying nothing at all.


Here are some attributes and basics of good responding:

1. Have an aura of control. Don't approach the coach like you are going to "handle" him, but with body language, mechanics and non-abrasive signals you can prove to the coach that "hey the game is not here for me, I am here for the game, but I have good control of it"

2. Avoid being defensive. This is one of the hardest things to do for me. If a coach asks you a question. Answer that question. Here is an example of what NOT to do. EX:
COACH: Hey Bill you are not allowed to put a forearm on a player and reroute them are you?
REFEREE: Bob I didn't think your player re-routed them.
Primetime no no. Here is how I think it should have went with the coach asking the same thing:
REFEREE: No they can't
The coach here might either concede and feel like he won this battle because he knows you know what play he was talking about, and that's is fine, we do know what play he is talking about and we are not there to debate with him. Then again the coach might ask about that particular play and then you just tell him and try to move on.

3. Be the voice of reason. Don't be a baiter. Don't try to the coach mad enough where you are going to have to give him a Technical. Try and talk the coach down unless you know he is wanting one, in which you give it a little more time to develop where the whole entire crowd can see that he deserves one.

4. Try and give people and chance to come down. If we have a big bang bang play, and it didn't go the coaches way, sit back and just witness what happens and evaluate the play that you just had. Basketball is an emotional game. Emotions run high sometimes. Coaches deserve to get emotional sometimes. Once again if he keeps harping address it. It was a hard play.

5.Recognize the level of tension or anger. Enough said. If you always have a feel of how tense the coach and the players are you will know most of the time how to deal with situation.

6.Defuse Animosity. Let's face it coaches think we are satan's spawn sent here to make their life a living hell. How do we defuse that. By getting our plays right, and creating a professional friendship and trust between us and the coaches. If you can get the coach to trust you, you have won half the battle, plus you have gained yourself a little bit of credibility. Also, with gaining that friendship, I believe it makes it easier if you refer to the coach by his name, that is if you know both coaches names. It makes it that much more interactive, then if I just refer to him as a title. Everybody who is in charge of a team is a coach, but there are fewer Jim's and Mike's. He has his own identity now and might feel that we just don't see him as another "it" or "thing" that is there just to complicate our night.

7. Always maintain your dignity. Don't let a coach berate you, or one of your partners in front of everybody. Everybody has seen and knows what he deserves, keep your dignity and T him up. At the same time, keep your dignity, in regards to not going off on the coach. If you feel your temperature rising and you can't give him a T without making it look like, there was no other reason to give it to him other than it was warranted and hence you have already forgot about, then just switch with a partner and let him handle it for a while. That is just good partnering.

8. Lastly demonstrate empathy and respect for the coach and the players. Try and put yourself in their shoes. For the most part players play like each game is their last and that it is for the state championship, and coaches coach and try to win because alot of times their job depends on how many they have in the win column.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by CLH

Now what do we say to coaches when they wanna know why that wasn't a foul, when we all really know by rule it is.

If I miss something that I know was a foul, but for whatever reason I missed it, the coach is going to hear, "Coach, I think you're probably right - I missed it."

However, on the plays you describe, I disagree that we "know" it is a foul. Advantage / Disadvantage still applies - even to shooters. We have to protect the shooter, but if the contact is marginal and the ball goes in the hole was there really an advantage? In my opinion it's not.

So, if a coach really questioned a play like that - begging for the "and 1" - I would say something like, "Coach, I don't have a foul on that and I'm not going to on either end."

After that, just make sure that you are consistent.

Note that I don't agree that every time the ball goes in the hole we can't have a foul. However, we have to get away from calling the marginal "and 1s" that are simply game interrupters. One of the worst calls is when a player makes a monster dunk and the official comes up with a soft "and 1" - don't stop the momentum of the game.

[Dan_ref]

OK, you took the time to type this all in so I'll take the time to respond

Originally Posted by btaylor64

2. Avoid being defensive. This is one of the hardest things to do for me. If a coach asks you a question. Answer that question. Here is an example of what NOT to do. EX:
COACH: Hey Bill you are not allowed to put a forearm on a player and reroute them are you?
REFEREE: Bob I didn't think your player re-routed them.
Primetime no no. Here is how I think it should have went with the coach asking the same thing:
REFEREE: No they can't
The coach here might either concede and feel like he won this battle because he knows you know what play he was talking about, and that's is fine, we do know what play he is talking about and we are not there to debate with him. Then again the coach might ask about that particular play and then you just tell him and try to move on.

Absolutely disagree. If you saw no foul then say so, that grinds the debate to an immediate halt. All he can say is "You didn't see THAT?" And you can say "nope".

End of discussion.

Doing it your way leaves the point open for discussion.

Originally Posted by btaylor64

6.Defuse Animosity. Let's face it coaches think we are satan's spawn sent here to make their life a living hell.

Well, no, they just want to win. The good ones will try & work us to get that win, that bad ones think we're there to make them suffer. In any case it's up to us to control them, not the other way around.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Absolutely disagree. If you saw no foul then say so, that grinds the debate to an immediate halt. All he can say is "You didn't see THAT?" And you can say "nope".

End of discussion.

Doing it your way leaves the point open for discussion.

Absolutely agee. 113%

"Any contact there was incidental, coach".

Then stfu. You can't quote silence, and there ain't gonna be an argument if only one person is talking. The coach knows that he ain't gonna get that call. He's usually (1) trying to make a point ..or..(2) trying to get the next call. Either way, it don't really matter what your response is; he's just wants to get his point across and it doesn't really matter to him what you're saying anyway. Just nod your head to show that you heard him, and then keep on a-motoring.

[JugglingReferee]

Don't forget about the things you shouldn't say:

- that wasn't my call
- I wasn't in the right position to see that
- we don't call that

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Don't forget about the things you shouldn't say:

- that wasn't my call
- I wasn't in the right position to see that
- we don't call that

"You coach, I'll referee".....

You know the response that you're gonna get if you use that one.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

"You coach, I'll referee".....

You know the response that you're gonna get if you use that one.

Yup. I think I used that one early in my career. IIRC, it backfired.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

"You coach, I'll referee".....

You know the response that you're gonna get if you use that one.

When I was a younger referee I heard a seasoned veteran say to a coach, "Ya know coach, I really do suck tonight - and you are doing a horrible job coaching - why don't we switch, it can't hurt can it?"

I'd never have the balls to do that but it sure shut him up!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Don't forget about the things you shouldn't say:

- that wasn't my call
- I wasn't in the right position to see that
- we don't call that

I disagree with the last two on your list.

For one a coach might complain to the official that has no idea what happen or is not looking in that area. You need to let the coach know you cannot respond intelligently to something you have no idea what took place. I have told coaches this many times when a call was right in front of my partner and I have no idea what was called. Also I want the coach to ask the appropriate official the question instead of nagging me or non-calling officials about calls we could not have seen. I would hope my partners would say a similar thing when I make a call that he/she clearly did not see. Also this would vary a bit if I am dealing with a much greener partner or partners and I may be more supportive with comments. I tend to pregame that as individual officials we should explain our own calls if there is not a double whistle and if our partners did not see why we made a call in the first place. I have made this comment several times and I cannot think of one time it got me in trouble. As a matter of fact it kept me out of more trouble and added credibility to the crew.

The second one I have said many times as well. When a coach starts talking about moving screens, over the back calls or reaches as an example. I tell them flat out I do not call those things. I also explain what I mean and what the rule actually is if I have time.

Peace

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

For one a coach might complain to the official that has no idea what happen or is not looking in that area. You need to let the coach know you cannot respond intelligently to something you have no idea what took place.

I agree the official needs to speak intelligently. Telling him/her that you were out of position isn't intelligent.

You've left it open that perhaps the official should be looking in that area. Instead, the official could say, "Coach, I had a strong matchup and followed the ball carrier to the hoop."

Never admit incompetency.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have told coaches this many times when a call was right in front of my partner and I have no idea what was called.

So you tell him you weren't in the right position to see something your P is responsible for? Of course you're not in the right position! Where you should be is dictated by your responsibilities, not your P's. If you do see something your P is responsible for, it's a bonus if the crew grabs it.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Also I want the coach to ask the appropriate official the question instead of nagging me or non-calling officials about calls we could not have seen.

I agree with this. It's simple: "He can answer your question better than I can."

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I would hope my partners would say a similar thing when I make a call that he/she clearly did not see. Also this would vary a bit if I am dealing with a much greener partner or partners and I may be more supportive with comments.

If you're with a newbie, and you, the senior, more experienced official of the crew, admit to being out of position, I see a coach unsure of officiating ability.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I tend to pregame that as individual officials we should explain our own calls if there is not a double whistle and if our partners did not see why we made a call in the first place.

Ok, this is nothing but Refereeing 101.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have made this comment several times and I cannot think of one time it got me in trouble. As a matter of fact it kept me out of more trouble and added credibility to the crew.

Of course it worked; you didn't admit to incompetency!

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The second one I have said many times as well. When a coach starts talking about moving screens, over the back calls or reaches as an example. I tell them flat out I do not call those things. I also explain what I mean and what the rule actually is if I have time.

Over the back? Reaches? What are those, again? In the coaches mind, most likely an over the back call is his player being displaced. He doesn't care what you name the supposed illegal act, just that it gets penalized. If it truly was a 'push' (and by all means should have been a foul), but the coach calls it an 'over the back', are you going to tell him that you don't call OTBs? You're better off to say, "There was no advantage", or "We've called it the same at each end, play on."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I agree the official needs to speak intelligently. Telling him/her that you were out of position isn't intelligent.

You've left it open that perhaps the official should be looking in that area. Instead, the official could say, "Coach, I had a strong matchup and followed the ball carrier to the hoop."

Never admit incompetency.

Incompetence? Now who is making this more complicated?

The point is you should not make a coach believe you knew something you did not. Telling them you were not in a position to see something is not at all incompetent. It is the truth. Coaches need to understand that not everyone is looking at the same thing. It is really that simple. Remember, you said "NEVER" as it related to this topic. I am just taking a point of view that "NEVER" is too board.

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

So you tell him you weren't in the right position to see something your P is responsible for? Of course you're not in the right position! Where you should be is dictated by your responsibilities, not your P's. If you do see something your P is responsible for, it's a bonus if the crew grabs it.

I agree with this. It's simple: "He can answer your question better than I can."

If you're with a newbie, and you, the senior, more experienced official of the crew, admit to being out of position, I see a coach unsure of officiating ability.

I think you are taking the "out of position" part too personally. Being not in position to make a call can mean a lot of things. I know if I am on the other side of the court and there is an out of bounds call made by my partner, I am probably not in a good position to make a call or help my partner. So when the coach wants me to help him out, I can clearly tell the coach “I am not in position to see whether he stepped on the line.”

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Over the back? Reaches? What are those, again? In the coaches mind, most likely an over the back call is his player being displaced. He doesn't care what you name the supposed illegal act, just that it gets penalized. If it truly was a 'push' (and by all means should have been a foul), but the coach calls it an 'over the back', are you going to tell him that you don't call OTBs? You're better off to say, "There was no advantage", or "We've called it the same at each end, play on."

You do not have to agree with my point of view on this. I just took an opposition on your comments because you said "NEVER" and there clearly is a time I can think of where those comments would apply within some context. Also I have "NEVER" heard a clinician or much more experienced official (while attending a clinic or talking to about the game) to never say those things. As a matter of fact I have heard many officials (clinicians for example) to tell a coach all kinds of things to make it clear they were "out of position" to know what happen or to make a call. Being out of position does not always have to deal with incompetence. Being out of position might have might have to be the fact the system put you in a position to call only certain things. Also I do care what a coach calls a particular foul, because "over the back" is not a foul nor has anything to do with the actual rule. So to me it matters what types of fouls they describe. I might not comment the first time those terms are used, but when a coach is complaining every time of the court about "over the back" and "reaching" we might have to have a little talk.

Also it really does not matter if we agree on all of this. If I have learned anything from this site or talking to other officials over the years and in the multiple sports I work, not everyone is going to agree on what works and what does not when dealing with coaches. If you feel those things should never be said, you definitely have the right to feel that way. I also know that talking to coaches is an art and one size does not fit all. A lot of success talking to coaches is your body language, facial expressions and your previous history with a coach and the general demeanor the coach has can all change what you say and what you do not say. I also think the most important issue is to fit your personality. When I attended a camp this summer one of the clinicians stated that Jim Burr is a very serious official that does not take a lot of crap. He tends to have a surly demeanor and no one messes with him during games. Tim Higgins is known as the complete opposite of Burr's demeanor. Higgins is known to tell jokes, keep everyone on the court in stitches with laughter and no one messes with him. Both Burr and Higgins are considered to be pretty much similar in talent and ability. Both work all the big games on TV (or at least is seems that way) and have the same kind of respect from the coaches that they work with. Both do not have the same approach to the game, but get the job done when it counts. So JR if you do not like to use certain words that is great if it works for you. It just might not work for me.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I agree the official needs to speak intelligently. Telling him/her that you were out of position isn't intelligent.... Never admit incompetency.

There is a difference between being out of position and not being in position to make a call or see a play

To me, out of position means I wasn't where I supposed to be to referee a play in my primary.

Not being in position to make a call or see a play means the play wasn't in my primary and I either couldn't see the play or I had match-ups in my area that precluded me from extending my coverage.

And if I were out of position and I blew a call, and the coach isn't or hasn't been an a$$-hole, I might say something like "Yeah, I think I blew that one, I didn't put myself in a good position to see the play." If the coach is an a$$-hole, then I just say "I might have missed that one Coach." I wouldn't consider it admitting "incompentence", just admitting a possible mistake.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

When I was a younger referee I heard a seasoned veteran say to a coach, "Ya know coach, I really do suck tonight - and you are doing a horrible job coaching - why don't we switch, it can't hurt can it?"

I'd never have the balls to do that but it sure shut him up!

I like this one. I just might have to try it.