player control/team control

[hardwoodballers]

Whats the difference between player control and team control?
please e-mail me at [email protected] or answer to this topic.

[JRutledge]

Player control foul is when the player with the ball commits a foul.

Team control foul is when a team member who happens to be in control (by rule in NF rules) commits a foul.

Peace

[hardwoodballers]

thanks for that fast response.
Your buddy Leo
Hardwood Ballers

[rainmaker]

Just to be very clear.

A player control foul is a foul committed by the person who has player control. A team control is committed by a member of the team in control, but that player doesn't have player control.

[ChuckElias]

Also, in HS (and NCAA-W, I think), a player control foul can be called if the player has released the ball on a shot, even though the player is no longer holding the ball.

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Also, in HS (and NCAA-W, I think), a player control foul can be called if the player has released the ball on a shot, even though the player is no longer holding the ball.

This is correct (W-NCAA), if the player has released the ball and has yet to return to the floor and then charges into a defender it is a player/team control foul.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Therefore, a player control foul is a subset of team control fouls.

Mathematically incorrect because there is at least one example for which this is not true.

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Soooo....I see where it says a team ctl foul might be a PC foul. I don't see where it says a PC fouls is NOT a TC foul, which is what I questioned from Juulie's original post.

By looking at the definition (NFHS & NCAA) I don't see how a PC foul is not a TC foul.

Chuck already posted the exception Dan.

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Also, in HS (and NCAA-W, I think), a player control foul can be called if the player has released the ball on a shot, even though the player is no longer holding the ball.

There is no team control in that case. It has already ended.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Mathematically incorrect because there is at least one example for which this is not true.



Chuck already posted the exception Dan.



There is no team control in that case. It has already ended.

The exception doesn't make Juulie's original statment any more correct.

And in any event it only applies to 2 of the 3 codes.

So I'll stand behind my original comments, thanks.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Mathematically incorrect because there is at least one example for which this is not true.

Oooo, ok. I guess "subset" is wrong. It's been a while since I did any mathematical theory. But I think everything else I said is right.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Oooo, ok. I guess "subset" is wrong. It's been a while since I did any mathematical theory. But I think everything else I said is right.

Been a bad day all around, eh?

Got the sh!tty end of the Mr Annoying Guy stick...any other bad news come your way today...???

Hmmmm...? Bad news....? Nothing...? Anything come to mind...?

Nothing at all?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Just to be very clear.

A player control foul is a foul committed by the person who has player control. A team control is committed by a member of the team in control, but that player doesn't have player control.

Where does it say that?

IOW...a player ctl foul is a team ctl foul.

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Where does it say that?

IOW...a player ctl foul is a team ctl foul.

Basketball
NFHS
Casebook
Rule 4
4.23.2 Guarding Position


SITUATION: B1 jumps in front of dribbler A1 and obtains a legal guarding position with both feet touching the court and facing A1. Dribbler A1 contacts B1's torso.
RULING: Player control foul on A1. (4-7-2)

Basketball
NFHS
Casebook
Rule 4
4.12.1-B Player and / or Team Control


*SITUATION: A1 is dribbling in A's backcourt when the ball accidentally strikes his / her ankle and bounces away. During the interrupted dribble, A1 fouls B1 in attempting to continue the dribble.
RULING: A team-control foul is charged to A1. It is not a player control foul as the contact occurred during an interrupted dribble. (4-19-7)

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by RonRef

Basketball
NFHS
Casebook
Rule 4
4.23.2 Guarding Position


SITUATION: B1 jumps in front of dribbler A1 and obtains a legal guarding position with both feet touching the court and facing A1. Dribbler A1 contacts B1's torso.
RULING: Player control foul on A1. (4-7-2)

Basketball
NFHS
Casebook
Rule 4
4.12.1-B Player and / or Team Control


*SITUATION: A1 is dribbling in A's backcourt when the ball accidentally strikes his / her ankle and bounces away. During the interrupted dribble, A1 fouls B1 in attempting to continue the dribble.
RULING: A team-control foul is charged to A1. It is not a player control foul as the contact occurred during an interrupted dribble. (4-19-7)

Soooo....I see where it says a team ctl foul might be a PC foul. I don't see where it says a PC fouls is NOT a TC foul, which is what I questioned from Juulie's original post.

By looking at the definition (NFHS & NCAA) I don't see how a PC foul is not a TC foul.

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Soooo....I see where it says a team ctl foul might be a PC foul. I don't see where it says a PC fouls is NOT a TC foul, which is what I questioned from Juulie's original post.

By looking at the definition (NFHS & NCAA) I don't see how a PC foul is not a TC foul.

Since we don't shoot the bonus on either a player of team control foul why does it really matter?

[ChuckElias]

Ron, I think you're missing Dan's point. Juulie's post indicated that a team control foul has two conditions: 1) it is a foul by a player whose team is in control AND (2) the player who commits the foul does not have player control.

Dan's point is that the second part of that explanation is incorrect. The player MAY not have the ball; but there is still team control even if s/he does have player control. So a foul by the player in control of the ball is still a team foul, even tho it is also a player control foul. Therefore, a player control foul is a subset of team control fouls.

Both your citations are correct, but miss Dan's point.