Kicked ball on inbound throw in

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

While JR's rule citation says that the clock should start on the touch, the clock can't start if the touch causes the ball to be dead immediately, IMO. If the player receiving the pass were standing OOB when he touched the ball, we would not start the clock, would we? This is the same situation. The touch causes the ball to be dead immediately, just as if he were OOB.

I have to disagree with you, Chuck. It's not the same situation. The rule says the clock starts when the ball is touched by a player ON THE COURT, which is defined as being inbounds. I agree that the clock should not start until the ball is legally touched on the floor but that's not what the rule says.

In your example where the clock doesn't start when the pass is touched by a player OOB, the clock doesn't start because THE PLAYER IS NOT ON THE COURT. That's the difference in the two plays.

5-9-4
If play is resumed by a throw-in, the clock shall be started when the ball touches, or is touched by, a player on the court after it is released by the thrower.

Once the ball is handed to the thrower after the kick, the ball is live and it's too late to correct.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

In your example where the clock doesn't start when the pass is touched by a player OOB, the clock doesn't start because THE PLAYER IS NOT ON THE COURT. That's the difference in the two plays.

5-9-4
If play is resumed by a throw-in, the clock shall be started when the ball touches, or is touched by, a player on the court after it is released by the thrower.

Under throw-in provisions, it says, "The ball shall be passed by the thrower directly into the court from out-of-bound so it touches or is touched by another player (inbounds or out of bounds) on the court before going out of bounds untouched." (9-2-2)

That player OOB apparently is on the court.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Under throw-in provisions, it says, "The ball shall be passed by the thrower directly into the court from out-of-bound so it touches or is touched by another player (inbounds or out of bounds) on the court before going out of bounds untouched." (9-2-2)

That player OOB apparently is on the court.

According to rules 1-1&2 and 4-9-2, the player who is OOB is not on the court.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

According to rules 1-1&2 and 4-9-2, the player who is OOB is not on the court.

Well, according to 9-2-2, he is. So now what?

[BktBallRef]

9-2-2 is addressing the fact that the ball must touch another player before the thrower can touch it. It has nothing to do with the definition of the court. The "OOB" potion of the rule is meant to address who commits the violation and where the spot will be for B. It's a matter of who violates, the thrower or his teammate. Poorly written? Yes. A redefining of court? No.

The rules below address the court and nothing in either of them address the OOB area as being part of it. 4-13 makes it very clear that only the inbounds area is the court.

1-1
The playing court shall be a rectangular surface free from obstructions and with dimensions not greater than 94 feet in length by 50 feet in width. IDEAL MEASUREMENTS ARE: High School Age – 84 by 50 feet. These are the dimensions for the playing court only.

1-2-1
The playing court shall be marked with sidelines, end lines and other lines as shown on the appended court diagram.

4-13
The frontcourt of a team consists of that part of the court between its end line and the nearer edge of the division line, including its basket and the inbounds part of the backboard.

The backcourt of a team consists of the rest of the court, including the entire division line and the opponent's basket and inbounds part of the opponent's backboard.

I think you're going to lose this one, partner.

[Nevadaref]

My thoughts:
1. The playing court is the inbounds area. The court includes both the inbounds and out of bounds areas used by the players to play the game. For example, the space out of bounds used to make throw-ins is part of the court which is marked with sidelines and endlines. (Perhaps the NFHS will disagree and clarify, but for now that's my opinion.)

2. The NFHS timing rule for a throw-in just says touched while the NCAA specifies legally touched.

3. I have the clock starting in an NFHS game on both plays. (The first touch being a kick and the first touch being made by an OOB player.) I have the clock NOT starting in an NCAA game. Just another difference.

4. I formulated some of this opinion due to the thread about the throw-in/timing snafu.