Where to Inbound the ball???

[Peter Devana]

I had an interesting one last nite in a Varsity Boy's Regional Final. Playing NCAA Men's rules- Team A has a throw in from a designated spot under team B's hoop. 7.4 seconds left in 3rd quarter. Team A successfully inbounds the ball and advances the ball to a spot about 5 feet short of centre-against a very strong press- my partner ,at this point notices that the game clock has not started and blows his whistle. The shot clock was unserviceable at the time so could not help us. My partner thought we should give the ball back to team A at a point closest to where it was when he blew the whistle- I disagreed and took it back to the original spot and began over with 7.4 seconds on the clock.Discussing it later he felt since team a had almost advanced the ball past the press it was fairer to give them back the ball there with7.4 on the clock. I felt that would put team A at an advantageous position closer to their basket. I prevailed. If we had known exactly how much time had passed we could have gone with my partners decision but we didn't. I would be interested in all opinions and a case answer if there is one.

[sip]

I was faced with this situation here in THE Bahamas where we play FIBA rules. This is how we handled it ( I was the R). Since we really didn't know exactly how much time had elapsed we took it from the point were the ball would have been inbounded with what ever time was left on teh clock. Reasoning: We could not erase what the inbounding team had done. (WHAT HAS HAPPENED CAN'T BE TAKEN BACK...what it the team had inbounded, shot and scored and the clock STILL hadn't started? Do you take the goal BACK? CAN'T) We can't penalize for a clock-operator and officials mistake (in my situation I was not responsible for the clock or inbound at that point, there was a lot of rough play at centre court)). ANY HITS ON THIS REASONING???

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Peter Devana
I had an interesting one last nite in a Varsity Boy's Regional Final. Playing NCAA Men's rules- Team A has a throw in from a designated spot under team B's hoop. 7.4 seconds left in 3rd quarter. Team A successfully inbounds the ball and advances the ball to a spot about 5 feet short of centre-against a very strong press- my partner ,at this point notices that the game clock has not started and blows his whistle. The shot clock was unserviceable at the time so could not help us. My partner thought we should give the ball back to team A at a point closest to where it was when he blew the whistle- I disagreed and took it back to the original spot and began over with 7.4 seconds on the clock.Discussing it later he felt since team a had almost advanced the ball past the press it was fairer to give them back the ball there with7.4 on the clock. I felt that would put team A at an advantageous position closer to their basket. I prevailed. If we had known exactly how much time had passed we could have gone with my partners decision but we didn't. I would be interested in all opinions and a case answer if there is one.

Why didn't you know how much time should be taken poff the clock? Wasn't your partner counting?

Instead of giving A an advantageous position, you penalized them. They've already brought the ball up the floor, why are you making them do it again? It's not their fault the clock didn't start.

Sorry, your partner was right but he should have had a count.

[Peter Devana]

Yes we should have had the count but after the whisle blew and I found out the reason I had honestly forgotten exactly what count I had and I didn't want to guess! Maybe you are right; however, what I did seemed the fairest way to go at the time,regardless, we sold it and noone got upset-C'est la vie.

[Dewey1]

Why would you have a count going with only 7.4 seconds left to go in the game? It is not possible to have a 10 second violation. If there was more than 10 seconds I could see a count. I guess if there was a closely guarded situation a 5 count might have been started but it does not sound like that was the case. What if the ball had been in-bounded in the front court with 7.4 seconds left and you noticed a few seconds later that the clock did not start, what count would you have then? Peter I think that you did it right.

[Dennis Flannery]

The reason for the count, is for this reason...the clock not starting, and so that you would have an idea as to when the horn is going to go off.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Peter Devana
Yes we should have had the count but after the whisle blew and I found out the reason I had honestly forgotten exactly what count I had and I didn't want to guess! Maybe you are right; however, what I did seemed the fairest way to go at the time,regardless, we sold it and noone got upset-C'est la vie.

I find it odd that you said, "I would be interested in all opinions and a case answer if there is one," yet you seemed to dismiss what I said without much consideration.

So let's examine it a little closer. The clock operator made one mistake and you compounded it by making two more. You lost track of the count and you penalized A by making them bring the ball from the baseline again. Whether you sold it or not, or thought it was the fairest way to handle it, the fact remains that three mistakes is far worse than one or two.

If you don't agree, that's fine. But you did ask all opinions.

[Brian Watson]

Regardless of time left you should ALWAYS have a count, this has saved me on two sitch's just like this.

If you forgot the count, OK, but resume where you left off. In the future remember, everything restarts from the point of interuption. In this case, A should get the ball at half court.

This is why we all come isn't it, to learn?

PS- Centre, eh? Is that metric for Center?

[Hawks Coach]

I can guarantee you would have had some explaining to do with me on this one. You can call it how you see it during play. But once play has stop, get the ruling right. I would be livid if we broke the press and you made us go back and do it again because the clock didn't start and you didn't have a count (with 7.4 seconds left!)

Would your second post read the same (we sold it and noone got upset-C'est la vie)if this was a playoff game and A lost the ball on their second attempt to break the press, B makes the steal and a last minute layup to win?

[Edited by Hawks Coach on Feb 19th, 2001 at 08:06 AM]

[Bart Tyson]

Brian is correct about starting at point of interuption. I think you take an educated guess on the time. Make a decision quickly, without your partner, and get the ball back in play at the spot OOB nearest where the ball was, at time of whistle.

[Dan_ref]

Hmm, this is the second post in the last few days where
someone wants to put time back on the clock and
have a do over. Is it possible that now that we're coming
down to the end of the season & the games have more meaning
we are more willing to throw out the rule book in the
name of "fairness"? I hope not. Maybe it's just a brief
case of do-over-itis.

[Kelvin green]

Maybe I missed something, but in this kind of game it doesnt take much to look at the clock to make sure it started. ( particularly if there is no pressure, but even if there is some it's not much to look up)with tenths on the clock you can see if the clock starts almost instantaneously. If it does great if not you have a count, then it is easy to get right. I agree dont make one mistake worse by making two or three more.!

[Peter Devana]

Sorry if I gave the impression that I dismissed your post- I certainly didn't and didn't want to leave that impression to anyone. I certainly will not forget the count next time and will give the ball at the point of interruption as so many of you have correctly suggested. I was lucky in this case as it was at the end of the 3rd quarter and my error did not result in an adverse outcome to either team. I really thought I was doing the fairest thing at the time and I continue to believe that the fair way is sometimes the correct way regardless of rule;however, in this case I out thought myself. THANX for all the great feed-back!!!!

[bsilliman]

For everyone who said they would have a count going even though there was no way to have a 10-sec violation, I say you are doing too much.

If you are doing to know how much time is going off the clock then you are not concentrating on the important things like:
1) fouls by the defender
2) illegal dribble
3) illegal screens to get the dribble open
4) etc.

Futhermore, by counting YOU are anticipating when YOU think the horn is going to go off. What happens if you get to 8 seconds and the horn has not gone off? As in stopping the clock there can be fractions of a second of lag time of when YOU chop the clock and the timer turns the clock on. In this case there is 7.4 seconds, so up to .3-.5 second delay could occur.

If you have given the scorer and timer a good pre-game, then they know what there duties are during a situation such as this, so let them do the job.

YOU have enough to worrry about on the court.

I agree that the ball goes back to the endline and you start with the same amount of time on the clock.

[Brian Watson]

I have to watch for those things anyhow, what action in counting is going to prevent me from seeing fouls? To be honest, since it is noral habit, it is probably better to count than not, your mind won't think you're forgetting anything.

I always wait until I get to 2 seconds more than the clock in before I look up. This way I can concentrate on the players, and only look up if I get to the point where it is too long.