10 second rule- girls ???

[bbcoach7]

Somehow I never got the memo. 2 seasons ago 10 second violation was being called (I'm in CA.). My teams pressure and trap. Then this season -during a game- I find out it isn't being called any longer! That was a little embarassing.

I guess I should have realized something was different when no opponents were trying to press us any longer. Anyone know why the 10 second rule was dropped from the girls game? ANd more importantly- how does this make the game better?

Is there a "trickle down" effect? Are you also no longer making the "10 second" call at the Jr High, CYO, AAU, and Rec League levels?

Here's what I have noticed as a result- nobody is running a press break to try and score any more. Instead everyone just keeps their ball handlers back, and slowly works the ball up court with reversal passes, and lobs to a post player at 1/2 court.

I realize my teams can still "force" a 5 second call in the back court, and when we press a weak ball handling team, we will get maybe 2-3 turn overs that way. But we used to be able to get 2-3 more (against weak ball handling) with the 10 second call.

It seems to me all we have done by this rules change is slow the game down and protect weak ball handling teams. No doubt there are considerations I am not aware of. I'd appreciate some factual enlightenment.

[M&M Guy]

bbcoach7 - What rule set are you using? National Federation, or NCAA-Women's? Are you using a shot clock as well?

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by bbcoach7

I realize my teams can still "force" a 5 second call in the back court,

Coach, maybe you need a rule book. Are you sure about the 5 second closely guarded in the BACK COURT????

[coach41]

Before everyone gets excited, let's get some more information:

bbcoach7 - What level of ball do you coach? As long as I have been reffing high school ball (4 years now), there hasn't been a 10 second backcourt violation for California. I think this special "exception" has been in existence for far longer than the 4 years I've reffed high school ball.


Nate1224hoops - On other hand, because the 10 second backcourt violation does not exist in CA, there IS a 5 second closely guarded BACKCOURT rule. CA uses a 30 second shot clock for high school girls basketball.

Now, for the CYO/Middle school teams (i.e. teams below 9th grade) and other leagues/tournaments for women, I would think the 10 second backcourt violation WOULD BE in effect if there is no shotclock being used.

bbcoach7 - As far as teams not pressing, I'm not sure why teams in your area have stopped pressing even without the 10 second violation.. However, here in SF, plenty of high school teams continue to press. Division IV State Champion Sacred Heart Catherdral (with no players over 5'10") use the press to force the tempo of the game and get steals. SF's public schools, which don't have a lot of size these days use the press in a similiar fashion.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

Coach, maybe you need a rule book. Are you sure about the 5 second closely guarded in the BACK COURT????

NCAA women's rule has a 5 second count in the front or back court. Holding the ball, not dribbling.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by coach41

Before everyone gets excited, let's get some more information:

bbcoach7 - What level of ball do you coach? As long as I have been reffing high school ball (4 years now), there hasn't been a 10 second backcourt violation for California. I think this special "exception" has been in existence for far longer than the 4 years I've reffed high school ball.


Nate1224hoops - On other hand, because the 10 second backcourt violation does not exist in CA, there IS a 5 second closely guarded BACKCOURT rule. CA uses a 30 second shot clock for high school girls basketball.

Now, for the CYO/Middle school teams (i.e. teams below 9th grade) and other leagues/tournaments for women, I would think the 10 second backcourt violation WOULD BE in effect if there is no shotclock being used.

bbcoach7 - As far as teams not pressing, I'm not sure why teams in your area have stopped pressing even without the 10 second violation.. However, here in SF, plenty of high school teams continue to press. Division IV State Champion Sacred Heart Catherdral (with no players over 5'10") use the press to force the tempo of the game and get steals. SF's public schools, which don't have a lot of size these days use the press in a similiar fashion.

Never seen a 5 sec. closely guarded call in the backcourt. In VA, we still have the 10 sec. violation and no shot clock. NCAA women have no such call either. Just doesn't make a lot of sense to me!!

[bbcoach7]

M&M Guy- NF w/ 35 second clock.

Nate- oops, my bad.

Guys- my question is rather simple and straight forward. Now that I've indicated which rule set, maybe someone can offer some insightful comments/facts.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bbcoach7

M&M Guy- NF w/ 35 second clock.

Nate- oops, my bad.

Guys- my question is rather simple and straight forward. Now that I've indicated which rule set, maybe someone can offer some insightful comments/facts.

No one can answer your question except for those that live where you are located or those that might know the people that make those kinds of rules changes in your state. In my state the NF has not dropped the 10 second violation and likely will not drop the rule just for Girl's basketball. That is why people asked you what rules set you were working under. NCAA Women's basketball does not have a 10 second rule, but NCAA Men's still does. The only explanation I can come up with (and I have no idea other than assuming) is your state wanted to be more like college basketball.

Peace

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

Never seen a 5 sec. closely guarded call in the backcourt. In VA, we still have the 10 sec. violation and no shot clock. NCAA women have no such call either. Just doesn't make a lot of sense to me!!

Nate you're wrong here.

Section 11. Closely Guarded

Art. 1. (Men) A player in control in the front court only while holding or dribbling the ball is closely guarded when his opponent is in a guarding stance at a distance not exceeding 6 feet. This distance shall be measured from the forward foot or feet of the defender to the forward foot or feet of the opponent.
Art. 2. (Women) A player in control anywhere on the playing court while holding (not dribbling) the ball is closely guarded when her opponent is in a guarding stance at a distance not exceeding 3 feet. This distance shall be
measured from the forward foot or feet of the defender to the forward foot or feet of the opponent.

[socalreff]

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

Never seen a 5 sec. closely guarded call in the backcourt. In VA, we still have the 10 sec. violation and no shot clock. NCAA women have no such call either. Just doesn't make a lot of sense to me!!

NCAA Women DOES have a 5 second closely guarded while holding anywhere on the court (including backcourt). However , it is only 3 feet closely guarded. In California girls high school, same rules as college except it is 6 feet closely guarded anywhere.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Nate you're wrong here.

Section 11. Closely Guarded

Art. 1. (Men) A player in control in the front court only while holding or dribbling the ball is closely guarded when his opponent is in a guarding stance at a distance not exceeding 6 feet. This distance shall be measured from the forward foot or feet of the defender to the forward foot or feet of the opponent.
Art. 2. (Women) A player in control anywhere on the playing court while holding (not dribbling) the ball is closely guarded when her opponent is in a guarding stance at a distance not exceeding 3 feet. This distance shall be
measured from the forward foot or feet of the defender to the forward foot or feet of the opponent.

OPPS forgot to include that tiny little fact. Thanks Dan. Must be stationary (not dribbling) and defender 3 feet or closer.

[socalreff]

[QUOTE=
Guys- my question is rather simple and straight forward. Now that I've indicated which rule set, maybe someone can offer some insightful comments/facts.[/QUOTE]

This rule was not changed 2 years ago. CA has had the 30 sec. shot clock for girls to match the college game for at least 12 years and the boys have had the 35 sec. shot clock about 8 or 9 years. The thought in our state amongst CBOA and instructors, as well as coaches, is to prepare the high school players for the college game. Also, it would be a major struggle for lower level (f/jv) girls teams to advance the ball against pressure consistently. Just my 2 cents as a contributor to the process.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by socalreff

This rule was not changed 2 years ago. CA has had the 30 sec. shot clock for girls to match the college game for at least 12 years and the boys have had the 35 sec. shot clock about 8 or 9 years. The thought in our state amongst CBOA and instructors, as well as coaches, is to prepare the high school players for the college game. Also, it would be a major struggle for lower level (f/jv) girls teams to advance the ball against pressure consistently. Just my 2 cents as a contributor to the process.

I'm not a big shot clock guy for the high school game, but why not have a 10 sec. count anyway. I saw the NCAA W national chapionship game where Harding of Duke held the ball in the backcourt until the shot clock reached 10. How is this helping the game?? My question is this: on average how many 10 sec. call do you make a year?? My guess is probably less than 1 per game. So why not keep the game moving???

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

I'm not a big shot clock guy for the high school game, but why not have a 10 sec. count anyway. I saw the NCAA W national chapionship game where Harding of Duke held the ball in the backcourt until the shot clock reached 10. How is this helping the game?? My question is this: on average how many 10 sec. call do you make a year?? My guess is probably less than 1 per game. So why not keep the game moving???

I do not think the issue is whether the game is helped by this rule or not. I simply think that the Women's game wants to be different than the Men's game and all other levels. That is why they have a rule for 5 seconds with the length of 3 feet and while holding the ball. None of these rules "help the game." They simply show that there are differences that might change strategy and the way the game is played.

Peace

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not think the issue is whether the game is helped by this rule or not. I simply think that the Women's game wants to be different than the Men's game and all other levels. That is why they have a rule for 5 seconds with the length of 3 feet and while holding the ball. None of these rules "help the game." They simply show that there are differences that might change strategy and the way the game is played.

Peace

It definetly stands out. VA hasn't gone to the shot clock yet, which I am sure they will at some point in the future, but other than the sake of being different I really don't understand not having the 10 sec. count. I just think that rule slows the game down a lot. Talk about getting a lead and playing four corners. Dean Smith coulda had a field day with this.