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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 29, 2006, 01:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffpea
According to the IHSA Policies/Procedures for the state tournament, the R is to sign the official score book at the conclusion of each game. If it is not done at the scorer's table, it can be done in the locker room in and must be in the presence of the official scorer and the host site adminstrator.

I have not come across an official who has signed the book in the state tournament (all rounds) or an official who knew they were supposed to sign the book.
...A tricky wicket.
I wonder if the game is not over until the book is signed, or if the game is over so why sign the book.
mick
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 29, 2006, 02:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mick
...A tricky wicket.
I wonder if the game is not over until the book is signed, or if the game is over so why sign the book.
mick
I don't know the specific answer to that question. I'm guessing that the R's signature "officially approves the final score". Instead of the visual/verbal approval that the R gives the official scorer before leaving the visual confines of the playing floor (which hardly anybody does), the signature provides demonstratable verification.

Of course, this "signature business" is only defined by the Illinois HS Assoc. for the state tournament - not for regular season/holiday tournament play.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 29, 2006, 02:35pm
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Lah me......

The original question asked if there was anything in the FED rule book or case book that stated the officials had to sign the book. The answer is:


NO!
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 29, 2006, 02:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
NO!
Can you elaborate? Your answer's too short.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 29, 2006, 05:08pm
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Not just post season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffpea
I don't know the specific answer to that question. I'm guessing that the R's signature "officially approves the final score". Instead of the visual/verbal approval that the R gives the official scorer before leaving the visual confines of the playing floor (which hardly anybody does), the signature provides demonstratable verification.

Of course, this "signature business" is only defined by the Illinois HS Assoc. for the state tournament - not for regular season/holiday tournament play.
This is not exactly true. You have to put your name and ID number for all varsity games regular or post season. Now you do not have to have your "official signature" someone just has to put your name in the official book this information. Now there is not "penalty" if you do not put the book other than you might not get rated by the coaches and it takes away your possible percentages to get those valuable power points that go towards playoff consideration. This is the case in all IHSA sports at the varsity level. We have to give numbers in football on crew cards. We have to sign their books or provide the numbers in baseball and we have to sign the book in basketball. Schools are supposed to rate every varsity official, we have to provide our information for every varsity contest as officials.

Peace
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 29, 2006, 05:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mick
...A tricky wicket.
I wonder if the game is not over until the book is signed, or if the game is over so why sign the book.
mick
As I stated signing the book is not tied to the game being over. It is only for rating purposes.

Peace
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 29, 2006, 05:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
As I stated signing the book is not tied to the game being over. It is only for rating purposes.

Peace
Jeff (actually, either one) - do you know why they would ask for the book to be signed after the game? I've understand putting my name and number in the book, but I've always done it before the game. I would be curious as to the IHSA's reasoning behind the official doing it afterwards, especially if it was a close, contentious game?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 29, 2006, 06:01pm
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I do not think I said it really matters other than just signing the book to get the proper information in the book. Usually officials sign the book before the game. I do not think it really matters when you do it other than it would be better to sign the book before the game so you do not have to deal with someone after the game.

Peace
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 29, 2006, 10:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M&M Guy
Jeff (actually, either one) - do you know why they would ask for the book to be signed after the game? I've understand putting my name and number in the book, but I've always done it before the game. I would be curious as to the IHSA's reasoning behind the official doing it afterwards, especially if it was a close, contentious game?
What JRut and I are talking about are two completely different things. JRut is taking about the officials listing their names and IHSA numbers in the scorebook for identificatin purposes prior to the game. I am talking specifically about the R signing (like placing your signature on a legal document) the official scorers book after the game has concluded to approve the final score of a state tournament game. Use the following link; go to Section VII, G "Rules of Play", #4 (pg 7) - This is the "Terms & Conditions" document from the IHSA regarding the state tournament.

http://www.ihsa.org/tc/2005-06/bkbtc.pdf

This specifically states what I have mentioned above. As I've stated before, most officials I've talked to don't know of this requirement and do not implement this practice during the state tournament.

Hopefully that clears this up. As others have said before, I do not believe there is a FED rule/requirement to sign the score book at any time.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Wed Mar 29, 2006, 10:58pm
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Well I have never had anyone take these statements literally. I have only had the signing we normally do as the confirmation of the final score when we actually leave the floor. The rules do say that when the officials leave the visual confines of the floor that is approval of the final score. I think that statement in that document has not been updated since the NF clarified several years back that officials did not actually have to sign the book. I am sure it is just one of those things that no one complains about and no one has brought to the IHSA's attention and it has never been change as a result. In my limited playoff career, I have never once had a single person ever try to bring the book to us to “approve the score.” I think this is more of an oversight than an actual enforced policy.

Peace
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 30, 2006, 10:21am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
Well I have never had anyone take these statements literally. I have only had the signing we normally do as the confirmation of the final score when we actually leave the floor. The rules do say that when the officials leave the visual confines of the floor that is approval of the final score. I think that statement in that document has not been updated since the NF clarified several years back that officials did not actually have to sign the book. I am sure it is just one of those things that no one complains about and no one has brought to the IHSA's attention and it has never been change as a result. In my limited playoff career, I have never once had a single person ever try to bring the book to us to “approve the score.” I think this is more of an oversight than an actual enforced policy.

Peace
C'mon JRut - just admit it. I'm right (with documentation to prove it) and you're wrong! nah, nah, na, nah, nah, naaaahhhhh!....
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 30, 2006, 10:47am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
No.

Are you kidding me? I just answered "no" first, and a little pop-up told me that my response has to be 10 letters long. Wassup with that?

How about this, Brad......"no fuking way". That's 11 letters.

Boy, I wish I could take credit for that little bit of computer programming, but my programming expertise is in FORTRAN, and my sister, who really is a computer software expert in real life, has been in Atlanta since mid-November working on a project for one of her clients, and is really too busy to help me with some a small programming quirk as this; having said that, I probably could have come up with this idea because I really did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I could go on and on and on about the whether the scorebook should be signed before or after or at all but then my post would get wordier and wordier.

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Last edited by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.; Thu Mar 30, 2006 at 03:05pm.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 30, 2006, 03:32pm
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Wink Huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffpea
C'mon JRut - just admit it. I'm right (with documentation to prove it) and you're wrong! nah, nah, na, nah, nah, naaaahhhhh!....
Right about what?

According to you we were talking about two different things. I am just telling you that no one in the 5 different regionals basketball (Class A and AA) I have worked ever made an issue out of the officials signing the book for score approval other than this post. You are the first I have ever come in contact with that stated this was even a policy. I did once read this statement, but no one ever said to follow it or else. Also I was talking about signing the book before the game you were talking about a post-season policy.

Peace
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 30, 2006, 06:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
I do not believe there is any place that requires an official to sign the book. I just know that in my state it is required that we do so for ratings purposes at all varsity games.

Peace
I know of schools that have refused to pay officials until the book is signed????????
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 30, 2006, 06:21pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnzebra
I know of schools that have refused to pay officials until the book is signed????????
Not much surprises me anymore.

Peace
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