LSU/Stanford charge (Women's)

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Rare? In an NCAAW game? Lead's primary in NCAAW goes all the way to the corner.

I have to disagree with you on this one. The lead's primary ends inside the arc. The arc can be the lead's secondary. If it goes all the way into the corner you have just shorten the Trail's responsibility strong side.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by truerookie

I have to disagree with you on this one. The lead's primary ends inside the arc. The arc can be the lead's secondary. If it goes all the way into the corner you have just shorten the Trail's responsibility strong side.

Ok, here's my second attempt. Rook, Nevada and Rich are talking about NCAA Women's mechanics. And they are correct!! In NCAAW, the Lead is responsible for everything below the FT line out to the sideline on his/her side of the court. You are not correct on this. Please listen to Rich and Nevada. They know what they're talking about. Honest.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Ok, here's my second attempt. Rook, Nevada and Rich are talking about NCAA Women's mechanics. And they are correct!! In NCAAW, the Lead is responsible for everything below the FT line out to the sideline on his/her side of the court. You are not correct on this. Please listen to Rich and Nevada. They know what they're talking about. Honest.

Chuck,
I am not trying to be correct on anything. I can visualize the lead taking this responsibility in 2 person. However, I cannot visualize this 3 person.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Chuck,
I am not trying to be correct on anything. I can visualize the lead taking this responsibility in 2 person. However, I cannot visualize this 3 person.

Well, I can't help you visualize it. I can only assure that it's what they do.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Well, I can't help you visualize it. I can only assure that it's what they do.

And as someone who earns my extra spending money doing NCAA Women's games, I can assure you that Chuck, Nevada, and Rich are correct. NCAA Women's mechanics, the L has a rectangular area of the court that extends half-way across the key, up to the free throw line, across to the SIDELINE...so a 3 pt. attempt from the corner is the L's primary and he/she signals the 3 pt. attempt!

[truerookie]

So, deep into the corner the lead signals. I am trying to understand this is all. Does anyone have a diagram of the area of responsiblity so I can actually see this?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by truerookie

So, deep into the corner the lead signals. I am trying to understand this is all. Does anyone have a diagram of the area of responsiblity so I can actually see this?

Another point is that the lead signals the attempt in that situation, but NOT the touchdown signal for a successful three point attempt. That is done by the lead and trail officials. Again, NCAAW only.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

The only caveat to the play is an offensive player that is still going strong into the defense and doesn't slow/attempt to stop.

I don't know what a caveat is, but as I read this thread I had been thinking that this was significant, not from the standpoint of rules, but just a matter of the official's perception of the play. Had Wiggins made any attempt to stop or at least angle off the contact, thus making it less severe, perhaps we have a no call. But in this case from either official's perspective we have an offensive player that runs completely through the defender. I thought Augustus did lean away from the contact slightly, but it was still severe enough that it was not what I call a flop by any means. Having said all that, I have slept since all this happened. If/when I see this replay again, my perception may be different. Meanwhile, I thought the block call on the big girl from Duke late in the game was incorrect. She seemed to be there in time, certainly no flop in this case. You could read the Duke coach's lips: "What'd she do?"

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Ok, here's my second attempt. Rook, Nevada and Rich are talking about NCAA Women's mechanics. And they are correct!! In NCAAW, the Lead is responsible for everything below the FT line out to the sideline on his/her side of the court. You are not correct on this. Please listen to Rich and Nevada. They know what they're talking about. Honest.

Thanks for the effort, Chuck. He just doesn't seem to be willing or able to grasp that the NCAA women's officials chop up the court differently. Why don't they handle this in the same manner as the men--who knows? Perhaps it's NBA or WNBA influence. But the fact is that it is NOT the same and truerookie will just have to accept that. When he does, he will have learned something new.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

JMO, but I thought it would have been a better no call. In talking with a D1 ref/friend of mine and something that I cover during pre-game, it is a general rule of thumb not to reward a player for attempting to draw a PC foul on a player that no longer has the ball. The only caveat to the play is an offensive player that is still going strong into the defense and doesn't slow/attempt to stop. I would go so far to say that is not a call that was made alot at that level.

A general rule of thumb? It is? Never heard that one before. Oh well, guess that's why I'm not a D1 guy. I have to wonder where people come up with some of this stuff. There is more than one way to play defense. 1. stay with the shooter/ don't allow that player to receive the ball or try to block the shot 2. step in and take a charge from the dribbler/passer.
Both are legitimate but different methods of playing defense. Why is it suddenly up to the official to decide which tactic the team has to use?

Originally Posted by Nate1224hoops

I TIVO'ed the game and watched the play over and over. I feel that in that situation in the game (less than 5 seconds) you have to let the players decided the game. I saw Augustus falling back before contact was ever made. She obviously excentuated the contact. The lead never made an effort to make the call and the play was less than 3 feet away. Also the ball was already out of Wiggins hands before contact occurred. IMO you gotta pass on that one and let players decided the game. Certain calls have to be made at the end of a game, but I feel that this call was kicked.

This one is even worse. In fact, it is such garbage that I am eagerly waiting for JR to show up and see it. I'm going to go make my popcorn now. He'll probably tell you to quit officiating and go coach. Actually, I'll tell you that myself. Ignoring fouls late in the game is not "letting the players decide the outcome." It's failing to do your job properly and screwing the offended team.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Thanks for the effort, Chuck. He just doesn't seem to be willing or able to grasp that the NCAA women's officials chop up the court differently. Why don't they handle this in the same manner as the men--who knows? Perhaps it's NBA or WNBA influence. But the fact is that it is NOT the same and truerookie will just have to accept that. When he does, he will have learned something new.

Nevada,
I have to agree with you, I have learned something new and I will continue to seek growth. I am not influenced by the NBA or WNBA. I am work hard to differentiate between the different levels. I will admit I was wrong and I accept that. I even went, as far as to look for the proper break down of the Women's game, I found it. I know the difference now. I know some on this forum may get frustrated with individuals, who does not grasp what they are saying. I am a visual learned, I have to see it, as well as, be told it. Thanks for being patience and positive with your response!!!!.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by truerookie

Nevada,
I have to agree with you, I have learned something new and I will continue to seek growth. I am not influenced by the NBA or WNBA.

LOL. I'm not sure why, rook, but you and Nevada are simply on different wavelengths. Nevada wasn't saying that you are influenced by the NBA/WNBA. He's saying that the NCAA Women's mechanics are influenced by the NBA/WNBA. LOL. One of these days, you'll both speak the same language.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

LOL. I'm not sure why, rook, but you and Nevada are simply on different wavelengths. Nevada wasn't saying that you are influenced by the NBA/WNBA. He's saying that the NCAA Women's mechanics are influenced by the NBA/WNBA. LOL. One of these days, you'll both speak the same language.

Chuck, I guess I took it that way. Good LOL though.

[truerookie]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

Another point is that the lead signals the attempt in that situation, but NOT the touchdown signal for a successful three point attempt. That is done by the lead and trail officials. Again, NCAAW only.

Rich, thanks

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

A general rule of thumb? It is? Never heard that one before. Oh well, guess that's why I'm not a D1 guy. I have to wonder where people come up with some of this stuff. There is more than one way to play defense. 1. stay with the shooter/ don't allow that player to receive the ball or try to block the shot 2. step in and take a charge from the dribbler/passer.
Both are legitimate but different methods of playing defense. Why is it suddenly up to the official to decide which tactic the team has to use?





This one is even worse. In fact, it is such garbage that I am eagerly waiting for JR to show up and see it. I'm going to go make my popcorn now. He'll probably tell you to quit officiating and go coach. Actually, I'll tell you that myself. Ignoring fouls late in the game is not "letting the players decide the outcome." It's failing to do your job properly and screwing the offended team.

I appreciate your respect of my opinion, very classy individual you are. Your "my crap dont stink attitude" is very pleasant. Ignoring fouls late in the game is not what I said...it's what you say to make your argument stronger. I said that in late game situations that players should be allowed to decide games. It goes back about 5 weeks ago to the Sheldon Williams no call at the end of the FSU game. I thought it was a foul. There was obvious body contact, but the official chose to pass on it. Why? Situation, last 5 sec. of the game. I guess your going to call the slightly displacing hand check with 3 sec. to go in the NCAA Regional semis too huh? Get real. Augustus was leaning away from the contact (already in flop mode), not to mention the fact that the ball was already gone. This is one IMO (note to jackass MY OPINION) that could/should have been passed on.