KY Referee Squabble - Outta Control

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Rich Fronheiser

BTW, when I said there would be a scene if I was ever in that situation, I meant that there would probably be a scene startted by the coach after I ejected him with a flagrant technical.

That wasn't my question Rich. I asked what would the official do if the coach called him boy. I didn't ask what an official would do after a coach attacked him. Not sure why you answered my question while changing the scenario.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

That wasn't my question Rich. I asked what would the official do if the coach called him boy. I didn't ask what an official would do after a coach attacked him. Not sure why you answered my question while changing the scenario.

Because I don't read for comprehension?

[irefky]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Now you are trying to justify what is the history? No one said that being called fat would not hurt, but it does not carry the same history. I know you think because you read some book and they told you white people were enslaved that must mean something. Well let me put it to you this way. My last name I cannot trace directly back the country or the ancestors that came before me. That applies to every single African-American I can think of (why do you think we use the term African-American in the first place?). Not knowing your family religion, tribe or customs are quite different from my standpoint compared to others that know who came over on the boat to this country and why they came over on the boat. In many cases we were here a lot longer than those that are white, but we have to prove we are Americans more than those that in the last century just got here.

Secondly no one was twisting anything. You made it sound like the guy was supposed to be a problem and decided not to be a problem. Those were your words, not mine. I used to belong to a pretty much all-Black association and we had white people in the organization. I would not refer to those members has "not causing problems" in any way. Either way it goes your statements showed a lot if you ask me. I do not get offended easily or care what people like you think. You just keep prove to all of us what we have to overcome.

Have a nice day.

Peace

You really have a lot of hatred, resentment. My apologies if you read more into what I was saying than what I was really saying. I just want all of us to live together. What I was saying, "I was more worried about white folks in our association having the problem, not the other guy." Not that it sound, more than you want it to sound offensive.

Please accept my apologies if I offended you. I certainly don't want to make anyone have to overcome anything that I say or do in life. I don't see black as African Americans, I really don't. I look at the black man as I do myself, as an American, nothing more or less.

I have read many of your post since I have been on these boards, I respect what you have posted. This does not change anything, a mutual respect. Thanks

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by irefky

You really have a lot of hatred, resentment. My apologies if you read more into what I was saying than what I was really saying. I just want all of us to live together. What I was saying, "I was more worried about white folks in our association having the problem, not the other guy." Not that it sound, more than you want it to sound offensive.

I had an opinion one what you said that means I have hatred and resentment? Who do I have this hatred towards? Let the truth be told I have accomplished a lot more than many with all things being equal. Race is a factor in a lot of things. I have no problem talking about that. You comments I found interesting and I was not the only one that pointed this fact out. Now if you are upset that someone took your words and drew a conclusion, well that is something you will have to do deep down in your soul.

Originally Posted by irefky

Please accept my apologies if I offended you. I certainly don't want to make anyone have to overcome anything that I say or do in life. I don't see black as African Americans, I really don't. I look at the black man as I do myself, as an American, nothing more or less.

Who said anything about being offended? I think you really need to look inward to find what you meant. I did not say I was at all offended. If anything I found your comments "interesting." Remember, you made them, I just commented on them. I am sorry that you have to define everything as what country they are from. Of course most people in this country are American; we should not have to keep pointing that out. This is not an international issue.

Peace

[house1987]

It has been a while since this topic hit the boards, but here’s what I know…you may believe it or not or voice your opinion about it or not.

Darrell Bailey was suspended for a year by the KHSAA. Darrell was the white official that came in the locker room at halftime of Vic Montgomery’s game. Victor resigned from the local and state association. Victor is no longer officiating high school basketball, but is still officiating at the collegiate level (I do not know if it's Division i, ii, or iii) and I hear is doing very well and has moved on since this incident. No lawsuit is pending that I know of. Darrell is still officiating, but I think only in the ABA. Darrell was asked to resign as president but did not resign. Victor was not asked to resign.

The assigning secretary, Rip Hatfield, was replaced…basically fired. Bobby McGrath is the new assigning secretary in Louisville.

This was a crazy incident and many rumors and untruths floated around. One thing for certain that did NOT happen is that neither official struck the other nor did the altercation EVER go into the stands. I think it is best the EVERYONE just move on and let this thing die down as the officials involved have done.

Personal attacks toward either official is not needed. This is just my opinion…

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by house1987

I think it is best the EVERYONE just move on and let this thing die down as the officials involved have done.

Considering that this thread had been dead for 9 months, I'd say that we'd already let it die down and moved on.

I'm just kidding around with you. Thanks for the update. That was obviously a very difficult and unpleasant situation. I'm glad it's resolved.

[house1987]

Yeah, you're right...however, there was a post wanting a resolution update a few months ago...so thus, the update.

[Johnny Ringo]

Does anyone still have this story - the original link is not active!

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo

Does anyone still have this story - the original link is not active!

more KY information

[Old School]

After reading up on all the responses and totally amazed at this issue. I had to look further to try and understand what really was going on here. First of all, anyone that says Vic is to blame for this is crazy, and if you are an official saying this, I challenge if you are even capable of judging fair play. Vic is a Vice Principle of a Middle High School for crying out loud and a very accomplished basketball official. This in itself is credibility people! Do I need to say more?

Now let's take a look at the other persons credibility. We don't know because he doesn't have any, or he simply doesn't have a leg to stand on. Also, according to the May 2006 article in Referee Magazine, Bailey admitted to calling Vic a boy several times.

Another piece of this is referee's Darin Stanfield and Alfred Smith completely dropped the ball here. According to the KHSAA code of ethnics, it says officials shouldn't work state playoffs games from the school they graduated from. Now let's be real. If your HS makes it to the state playoffs and you happen to get that game. At the very least, we're talking credibility here, but at the very least they should have informed the assigner that they went to this HS. More of this later.

As JRUT mentioned, we already have a racial issue in Kentucky when it comes to minorities, particularly blacks, getting to work state hs playoffs games. So much so, that the people in charge of assigning these games, wouldn't correct this issue themselves, so the Supreme Court had to get involved. People, this isn't 1897 here. I think it's safe to assume that Vic may have been apart of this struggle to take this case to the Supreme Court, and now, working it to this point, he gets ambush, successfully.

I beginning to smell a rat here. When no punches where thrown, they argued inside of the officials locker room which according to Vic did not spill out from the locker room to the court. I imagine some pretty bad things where probably said in this room, and Vic's partners had to separate them. Now Vic returns to the floor to find he is no longer working the game! Hold the phone! Do you begin to see the setup here? And yes the tournament director was in on it. Now I'm basing my conclusion on the time Vic and his partners left the officials locker room to the time they returned to the court. What exactly happened during this time? This is the grey area.

Vic, who is very credible to me says nothing happened, and Bailey indicated he went to sit in an area with other officials. Now, if nothing happen here, they had absolutely no grounds to remove him from working the 2nd half. In fact, it's written in the code, once an official starts a game, he has to finish it. I'm saying that they where wrong to do this to him, his rights where violated, and he didn't start this problem. Now, after they told him he couldn't work the 2nd half, then all hell broke lose! I don't know of any red blooded American that wears the black and white stripes, that would not have come unglued here. Now, they got what they wanted, what they needed, and thus he was removed from the rest of the tournament. Mission accomplished.

Nows let's get back to the 2 officials that started this. I'm sure they where quite angry when they where told they couldn't work there graduating HS games and blamed Vic, the Supreme Court, and everybody that wasn't white for it. I'm sure there was some outrage, and this spilled over. I think Vic suffer the biggest lost here. His reputation has been permanently damaged, and for what. Standing up for what was right! Regardless if Vic had anything to do with those other 2 gentlemen working that HS game that they graduated from. This was the problem, this was wrong on there part. You can't do that. You have to know that this is wrong and given the assigner enough notice, he probably could have just switch them with another crew. My bet is they wanted to work that game. My bet is Vic doesn't do any assigning of state HS games either. So if Vic did mention that there is a conflict of interest here, which is truly what Bailey was upset about. Vic was the only one acting like an adult, trying to uphold the code of honor. Remember, he's a vice principle. He's teaching your kids about respect and following the rules. He sees it first hand everyday.

This was a nice ambush, worked to perfection. Black guy is now out! How many times has this been done to us? Far too many, and what's worst, people like some of you on this forum, try to pretend that it really didn't happen that way. I'm sure these individuals settled out of court. I'm also hope they are able to move on and wish them much continued success. If the KHSAA was smart, they would want more people like Vic working there tournaments because we all know now, there is some big time problems and bad seeds in that organization.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Old School

This was a nice ambush, worked to perfection. Black guy is now out! How many times has this been done to us? Far too many, and what's worst, people like some of you on this forum, try to pretend that it really didn't happen that way.

So, you're basically saying that some of your fellow officials that post here are racists. And that's without ever having met or talked to them.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by house1987

Yeah, you're right...however, there was a post wanting a resolution update a few months ago...so thus, the update.

You just had to ressurrect this, didn't you? Are you happy now?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

So, you're basically saying that some of your fellow officials that post here are racists. And that's without ever having met or talked to them.

I will say this and leave it. A lot of people want to think you cannot have these kinds of events anymore or try to minimize them because the incidents did not take place in the 1960s. The reality is racism still exists and the person that told a room full of people about the Supreme Court was not a person of color and was the Chairperson of the NF Rules Committee. He said they had had problems in the past (no one even asked him about that topic BTW when he decided to report this information about his state).

It does not make you a racist because someone is not informed about current happenings that might not ever affect you personally. The reality is Kentucky like a lot of places across the country have problems dealing with race and it manifests itself in what we do when it comes to officiating. I may not agree with Old School very often, but he has a point to raise these issues. Considering I have had the very same conversation with fellow officials well off this board.

Peace

[Old School]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

So, you're basically saying that some of your fellow officials that post here are racists. And that's without ever having met or talked to them.

I did not say that, you are reading into it. I am entitled to my opinion just like you are but true be told, I never called anyone a racist.

If you want to talk about the issue, the topic, okay, anything else, not!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Old School

If you want to talk about the issue, the topic, okay, anything else, not!

It will be helpful if both of you (and certain other esteemed members) would adhere to this practice.