KY Referee Squabble - Outta Control

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by house18

I had not read that account from the Lexington, KY media. Pretty good reading. Seems to me that Darrell accepted it because he knew he was wrong...Just my opinion.

I agree that he accepted responsibility for his involvement in the embarrassing incident. When the incident is completely investigated, I hope that his punishment is appropriate. I also hope that the other official involved accepts some responsibility for being unprofessional rather than saying it was some kind of noble defense of his manhood.

Z

[irefky]

I agree, both officials need to accept a punishment. No matter what was said, there was a reaction. We would treat it the same way in a sporting event, cause and reaction, both penalized.

A poster mentioned earlier what would this black official do if he was called a "boy" by a coach...

Well, what would an overweight official do if a coach called him a fat---?

I don't know either official, it is just embarrassing to me because I am an official in Kentucky. Believe, me when a coach called me a SOB several times a few years ago, I had a reaction, was it inappropriate, sure, but a human response. I hate that it happened, but it did....

Hope the KBOA officials can work through this because I am sure they will be issues next year. I just hope they can be mature and re-set their goals as men, community leaders.

In my association, we have only one black official, he's great, no problems, we all love him. KBOA is a much larger official association in Louisville that has more black officials, not sure how many. I just hate to see them split, segregate, that would just be a slap in the face of humanity.

Just remember, color is not blind, it is there, we all see it. It's the stupid things we think or say that make it stick out. God Bless

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by irefky

A poster mentioned earlier what would this black official do if he was called a "boy" by a coach...

Well, what would an overweight official do if a coach called him a fat---?

I can change my weight. I cannot ever change my race or color. Not a very good comparison if you ask me. Also being fat does not come with the same history either. I realize you might be trying to come to some rationalization for this, but as you said you are not Black and knowing that you will not ever be Black makes it easy for you to take a position that you really do not understand. I am sure you mean well, but the analogy is very off.

Peace

[truerookie]

[QUOTE=irefky]In my association, we have only one black official, he's great, no problems, we all love him. (What is that suppose to mean he's great, no problems. ?) Is this because he does not go against the idealogy of the association?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by truerookie

In my association, we have only one black official, he's great, no problems, we all love him. (What is that suppose to mean he's great, no problems. ?) Is this because he does not go against the idealogy of the association?

Maybe he knows his place and leaves all the white people alone. If that is not what he meant, it sure sounded that way. I am glad someone else pointed it out.

Peace

[house18]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Maybe he knows his place and leaves all the white people alone. If that is not what he meant, it sure sounded that way. I am glad someone else pointed it out.

Peace

Not only that, but maybe he is soooo great because he is not above the other white officials and they are not threatened by his presence. An opinion...

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by irefky

A poster mentioned earlier what would this black official do if he was called a "boy" by a coach...

Well, what would an overweight official do if a coach called him a fat---?

I've always been able to walk away from any verbiage. Coaches are usually more controlled but I think we've all heard plenty from fans. I hope, and I believe, that I'll always be able to walk away.

Bottom line, there's more to this situation that we've been told.

I'm done with it.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I've always been able to walk away from any verbiage. Coaches are usually more controlled but I think we've all heard plenty from fans. I hope, and I believe, that I'll always be able to walk away.

Bottom line, there's more to this situation that we've been told.

I'm done with it.

But not until your over/under was shot to heck.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

And if that's true, then such an official has no business on the court.

That's your opinion. I think you think that I mean I, as the official, would start the scene.

I meant that the coach, after getting run, would start something. Hell, if he's capable of using a racial epithet how do you think he'd react after getting unceremoniously tossed?

Again, it's mostly hypothetical, since I'm a white guy. I'd toss a coach just as quick for calling me fat, though.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SMEngmann

I have observed this thread for a while and feel that now's a good time to comment. I agree and disagree with a lot of the previous posts. Firstly, I don't think we need to hear Bailey's side of the story, because the preponderance of the evidence gives us a pretty good idea of how things went down. Bailey himself admitted fault and didn't challenge his suspension, so by that alone, we have to assume that he did enter the locker room and referred to Montgomery as "boy" and that an altercation took place. The only gray area here is where the dispute took place, Mongomery said the dispute with Bailey took place in the locker room and only spilled out onto the court after he was replaced, while newspaper accounts simply point to a "visible dispute." After reading Montgomery's side of the story, I believe that the dispute happened behind closed doors and that the only reason it could've spilled out is if he was being replaced at the half. I know if I was being replaced by a tournament director at the half, I'd likely react the same way. Also, the only way that any dispute could've gone public would've been if Bailey followed Montgomery onto the court, in which case, Montgomery would have, in my opinion, more latitute.

In terms of how Bailey got into the locker room, he was not only officiating the following game, but he was the president of the association. Typically, at least in my area, commissioners of officials/observers and following officials routinely can go into the locker room at the half. In terms of where the partners were, I think we can speculate that the racial element and the fact that this guy's the association president may have played a role. Personally, if I was working a game and someone pulled my partner off at halftime, I'd refuse to work the second half as well, the lack of partner intervention here is astounding and lends credence to Montgomery's assertions.

When I initially read the story, I completely faulted Montgomery, and considered his actions grossly unprofessional, I now understand exactly why he took the legal actions he did. Montgomery was removed, AT HALFTIME from a playoff game by someone who he didn't feel had the authority to do it, after a dispute in the locker room with another official. That fact makes the visible altercation seem logical. Montgomery suffered extreme embarrassment by being pulled at the half, which no official, short of extreme conditions, should ever be. This is the heart of the issue, and I feel that the further legal action is warranted on that basis. I doubt this incident takes place without Montgomery being pulled at the half. Given the racial tension described in Kentucky, I can see why Montgomery feels race may have played a role.

In terms of the other topic of conversation on this thread, the reaction to Bailey calling Montgomery "boy" I have mixed feelings. My opinion is that, especially in our roles as officials, we must control our emotions all the times and not allow words, no matter how painful, to cause us to lose control. If you can't control yourself, there's no way you can manage the game, not to say that it's easy to do so. If a coach used that, I'd expect an ejection, but I would deem it to be unprofessional for an official to start a confrontation with the coach. Doing so only leads to the official getting in trouble and often results in the coach either looking vindicated or like a victim. Imagine in a racially charged atmosphere, a white coach calling a black official "boy" or worse and the black official not only ejects the white coach but charges at him and either hits him or unloads verbally. To onlookers, it looks as if the official, rather than the coach is at fault and as a result, the coach will get off much lighter than he should or otherwise would. In this case, Bailey baited Montgomery into losing his assignments. That being said, I'm not prepared to even call Montgomery's reaction unprofessional because if it stayed in the locker room he should have much more latitute than if the dispute indeed took place entirely in the public eye (even so, pulling an official during a game is just absurd).

BTW, when I said there would be a scene if I was ever in that situation, I meant that there would probably be a scene startted by the coach after I ejected him with a flagrant technical.

[azbigdawg]

What was the over/under on this thread becoming a racial pissing contest between JRut and Jurassic? No offense to either one..they both brought up great issues and are closer to agreeing than they care to admit! It will be interesting to see where this goes.

The thread also makes me glad that high school assignments in Arizona go through the AIA. (Arizona Interscholastic Association) No local groups, fewer polititcs...better control of schools and officials.....and an incident like this WOULD be handled swiftly.

The one big thought that came to me. (and someone else mentioned it) is WHERE was Mr. Montgomery's partner? SURELY there were cooler heads somewhere? Or was the partner complicit in the argument?

[Jurassic Referee]

[QUOTE=azbigdawg]What was the over/under on this thread becoming a racial pissing contest between JRut and Jurassic? No offense to either one.


[QUOTE]I don't partake in "racial pissing contests" with anyone. I do take great offense to your statement.

[azbigdawg]

[QUOTE=Jurassic Referee][QUOTE=azbigdawg]What was the over/under on this thread becoming a racial pissing contest between JRut and Jurassic? No offense to either one.

I don't partake in "racial pissing contests" with anyone. I do take great offense to your statement.

Please dont.

[irefky]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I can change my weight. I cannot ever change my race or color. Not a very good comparison if you ask me. Also being fat does not come with the same history either. I realize you might be trying to come to some rationalization for this, but as you said you are not Black and knowing that you will not ever be Black makes it easy for you to take a position that you really do not understand. I am sure you mean well, but the analogy is very off.

Peace

Rut, that maybe true, but it still is a personal attack. Regardless, of what you may think, it still hurts. The history of slavery, I am in no means trying to compare it with ones' weight, just to compare with ones' personal feelings. Black versus weight is not the issue, nor do I want it to be black versus white, just a common attack upon ones' personal feelings. Please, understand and you do lure to it, but you are "very off" if you think otherwise.

However, knowing history, nor do I want to defend it in anyway, whites were also inslaved. You may have heard the term, "serfs." Anyhow, and I am sure everyone on this board does not want to get into some crappie history lesson, it was WRONG. Regardless of the skin color, it was morally wrong. And again, my comparison was not for validity, but simply ones' own personal feelings of being attacked.

I know an official who started this year, he's obese. He eventually turned his schedule in, why? He was doing a game and the fans began cheering, "dough boy, dough boy." I spoke to him shortly, and told him he could do two things, quit or work is *** off to drop the pounds. I really felt bad for this man, he was hurt. It was a personal attack. Just as Mr. Montgomery was attacked, personally.

[quote=irefky]In my association, we have only one black official, he's great, no problems, we all love him. (What is that suppose to mean he's great, no problems. ?) Is this because he does not go against the idealogy of the association?

Why do some of you want to turn comments around? No, to your question. This guy goes to the State Tournament because he's that damn good. There's no jealousy, as the folks from Louisville said was going on in their association. Each official in our association respects him for both an official and person. No problems, meant from the white officials toward him. It's not all about color, some may think it is. I simply was saying it has nothing to do with it in our group.

[JRutledge]

Now you are trying to justify what is the history? No one said that being called fat would not hurt, but it does not carry the same history. I know you think because you read some book and they told you white people were enslaved that must mean something. Well let me put it to you this way. My last name I cannot trace directly back the country or the ancestors that came before me. That applies to every single African-American I can think of (why do you think we use the term African-American in the first place?). Not knowing your family religion, tribe or customs are quite different from my standpoint compared to others that know who came over on the boat to this country and why they came over on the boat. In many cases we were here a lot longer than those that are white, but we have to prove we are Americans more than those that in the last century just got here.

Secondly no one was twisting anything. You made it sound like the guy was supposed to be a problem and decided not to be a problem. Those were your words, not mine. I used to belong to a pretty much all-Black association and we had white people in the organization. I would not refer to those members has "not causing problems" in any way. Either way it goes your statements showed a lot if you ask me. I do not get offended easily or care what people like you think. You just keep prove to all of us what we have to overcome.

Have a nice day.

Peace