KY Referee Squabble - Outta Control

[Ref Daddy]

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/...84/1002/SPORTS

[Nevadaref]

WOW!!!!!
Not knowing any of the facts, I'm not going to make any judgments.
I will only say that this guy certainly believes that he was wronged and that he has convinced a judge that his case at least has enough merit to grant a temporary injunction while the situation is considered.

It is definitely different.

[bannind]

Even if he wins, working that game is gonna be tough. Or any other game from now on. It will end up being a defining moment in his career and unfortunately (whether he is right or wrong) I don't think it can end up as a positive.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Not knowing everything, maybe he has a valid complaint but I don't think this is the way to handle it and this can't be good for his officiating career. Maybe he lives close to the state line and can get a recripocal to work over there. ??

[Snake~eyes]

What's with the jeans to a State finals game? yeesh

[zebraman]

It takes two to fight. Either one of those officials could have just walked away from the argument and it wouldn't have spilled onto the court. Then the racial card gets played. Sounds like a guy who forgot that the game is about the kids.

Z

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by zebraman
It takes two to fight. Either one of those officials could have just walked away from the argument and it wouldn't have spilled onto the court. Then the racial card gets played. Sounds like a guy who forgot that the game is about the kids.

Z

I guess when people feel they are wronged they are never to bring up the reasons why they feel that way in your mind?

I do not agree with going to court but once again, if someone feels have been slighted, if they feel it is because of the color of their hair, they are every right to point that out. I also agree that this situation is going to hurt his career in the future. He will always be known as "that official" for the rest of his career. Unless he moves completely away from Kentucky that is a massive cross he will have to bear.

Peace

[bebanovich]

What a horribly-written article. I almost feel like I somehow know less than I did before I read it.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by zebraman
Sounds like a guy who forgot that the game is about the kids.

I agree that, from this one article, there doesn't really seem to be a racial element as the official claims. (That doesn't mean there isn't one; it just means it wasn't brought out in the article.) And I agree that the game is about the kids.

However, the assignment is very much about the officials. Being assigned to the post-season is very much a badge of honor to an official, and the further you go into the post-season, the bigger the badge is. If you're assigned to a game, and then removed for no good reason, that's wrong.

I can't say if the official's "altercation" was a good reason or not. But I can say that I would be very very upset to be removed from my next game on Tuesday night. I don't know if I would go to court over it, but it would definitely not be about the kids. That's about me and what I earned (hopefully) on merit this season.

[canuckrefguy]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

I agree that, from this one article, there doesn't really seem to be a racial element as the official claims. (That doesn't mean there isn't one; it just means it wasn't brought out in the article.) And I agree that the game is about the kids.

However, the assignment is very much about the officials. Being assigned to the post-season is very much a badge of honor to an official, and the further you go into the post-season, the bigger the badge is. If you're assigned to a game, and then removed for no good reason, that's wrong.

I can't say if the official's "altercation" was a good reason or not. But I can say that I would be very very upset to be removed from my next game on Tuesday night. I don't know if I would go to court over it, but it would definitely not be about the kids. That's about me and what I earned (hopefully) on merit this season.

Chuck brings up a good point...

We don't have enough information to dispute the race card thing. And what the hell was that other guy doing, going into the locker room at halftime of a huge game, just to pick a fight? Other questions:

1) Why did game admin. see fit to remove one of the working game officials? Why not just remove the troublemakers? Short of pulling a weapon, I can't see why the BOTH of them were kicked out of the building altogether.

2) Where were this guy's partners, or other officials who were undoubtedly at the game?

3) There must have been evaluators, assignors, etc there to watch the game. What were they doing?

So let me get this straight....someone comes into the room at halftime of a big game I'm working, stirs up trouble, and I get penalized for it. HUH? This guy is good enough that he was awarded some pretty big games. Seems to me his colleagues had a chance to give him the benefit of the doubt - and chose to hang him out to dry instead.

If the same thing happened my association's city playoffs, with one of our top officials, I'm thinking that evening ends a bit differently.

In the end, it seems very wrong to penalize EVERYBODY - especially the kids - for a dispute with your officials association. Save the big legal battle for afterwards.


[Edited by canuckrefguy on Mar 13th, 2006 at 11:58 AM]

[zebraman]

Originally posted by JRutledge

I guess when people feel they are wronged they are never to bring up the reasons why they feel that way in your mind?

I do not agree with going to court but once again, if someone feels have been slighted, if they feel it is because of the color of their hair, they are every right to point that out. I also agree that this situation is going to hurt his career in the future. He will always be known as "that official" for the rest of his career. Unless he moves completely away from Kentucky that is a massive cross he will have to bear.

Peace

Was he not awarded this playoff game previously? Yes. Did the color of his skin prevent him from being awarded that game? No. But now he and another official get into an altercation that spreads onto the floor and is very unprofessional. He could have walked away and not let it become a big argument that everyone saw. It obviously embarrassed other officials and most certainly the tournament staff. They have the right to get rid of those officials. Both officials were removed. Good.

Z

[Junker]

I can't resist this any longer. Why were referees fighting over the KY? Sorry, but that's been running through my head since this post started.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by canuckrefguy
[/B]

Why did game admin. see fit to remove one of the working game officials? Why not just remove the troublemakers? Short of pulling a weapon, I can't see why the BOTH of them were kicked out of the building altogether.

[/B][/QUOTE]According to the story, both officials were removed from further game assignments and both officials were escorted from the building. I imagine that was because of the lack of professionalism shown by both officials.

Does anybody know what color the other official was, btw? Or does that make a difference?

[canuckrefguy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by canuckrefguy
[B]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
According to the story, both officials were removed from further game assignments and both officials were escorted from the building. I imagine that was because of the lack of professionalism shown by both officials.

Do you have enough information to make that judgement?

Is it not at least possible that our main subject was wrongly penalized because another official took it upon themselves to barge into the locker room at halftime and stir up trouble?

Remember, I'm not defending his court injunction, but something here doesn't seem right.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by zebraman


Was he not awarded this playoff game previously? Yes. Did the color of his skin prevent him from being awarded that game? No. But now he and another official get into an altercation that spreads onto the floor and is very unprofessional. He could have walked away and not let it become a big argument that everyone saw. It obviously embarrassed other officials and most certainly the tournament staff. They have the right to get rid of those officials. Both officials were removed. Good.

Z

Larry Boucher who is on the NFHS Basketball Committee about 2 years ago came to the IHSA Official's Convention and spoke in a few sessions. One of the things he said was that Kentucky because of racial problems and history requires assignments at the State Tournament to be made with racial consideration. In other words, there is a requirement by law to have some many Black officials and so many female officials that work the State Tournament. Now if the Kentucky Supreme Court had to step in to make assignments fair, why would you not expect a situation like this to have some underlining racial factor to it? Now I am not saying it was, but if that is the way the guy feels, he has the right to say that. I am tired of people always telling others that they cannot claim racism when there is not only a clear history of such in this country, but it there is history in that state. I do not know of any state that had to have their State Supreme Court had to step in to alleviate racial history for officiating assignments. Do know of another state? If you had ever personally experienced racial problems throughout your life, you might understand why this get brought up a lot in this country.

Peace