Free Throw Violation?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

It's not the same thing. It's obviously not the same thing. The similarity is the line. Almost everything else is different. There's no play going on, no offensive or defensive action around him.

If anybody thinks it's a big deal and MUST be called, then that's whey s/he should do. I'm trying to give a different way to look at it and to prevent a call on an action that has literally no effect on the game.

I don't have anything to add.

Just wanted to preserve Chuck's huge typing error in it's glorious, pre-edit form.

Carry on.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

If anybody thinks it's a big deal and MUST be called, then that's whey s/he should do. I'm trying to give a different way to look at it and to prevent a call on an action that has literally no effect on the game. [/B]

I don't have anything to add.

Just wanted to preserve Chuck's huge typing error in it's glorious, pre-edit form.

Carry on. [/B][/QUOTE]Maybe it's some obscure reference to Little Miss Muffet when she was on the Rules Committee. You know- no "curds and whey" allowed on the bench.

Give Chuck some credit. The man is a scholar, you know.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Give Chuck some credit. The man is a scholar, you know.

A scholar on high doses of Nyquil!

I guess I was thinking about writing "that's what they should do" and realized it was poor grammar. But it came out wrong anyway.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
[/B]

A scholar on high doses of Nyquil!

[/B][/QUOTE]Don't you mean a scholar getting high on Nyquil?

Seeing you're a gentleman, a scholar, and a lover of fine Diet Coke(shaken, not stirred), riddle me this, ScholarMan:
- Iirc your average Nyquil bottle has a warning on it saying sumthin' like "do not take me if you're going to operate heavy machinery". And everybody usually takes Nyquil before going to bed anyway, right? Sooooooo.....when you get up in the middle of the night, isn't it also usually because you gotta take a leak, right? Not because you just got a sudden urge to drive a bulldozer?

What's up with that?

So many questions, so few answers.......

[ChuckElias]

Unless you gotta drive the bulldozer to the outhouse.


It's those front-loaders that you gotta watch out fer, tho.

[Dribble]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

A scholar on high doses of Nyquil!

[/B]

Don't you mean a scholar getting high on Nyquil?

Seeing you're a gentleman, a scholar, and a lover of fine Diet Coke(shaken, not stirred), riddle me this, ScholarMan:
- Iirc your average Nyquil bottle has a warning on it saying sumthin' like "do not take me if you're going to operate heavy machinery". And everybody usually takes Nyquil before going to bed anyway, right? Sooooooo.....when you get up in the middle of the night, isn't it also usually because you gotta take a leak, right? Not because you just got a sudden urge to drive a bulldozer?

What's up with that?

So many questions, so few answers....... [/B][/QUOTE]

JR, I'm a little concerned that you're commenting on Chuck's "machinery" on a public forum!!!

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Adfter the free-throw shooter has received the ball from the administering official, it is a violation if he/she then steps on or over any line - the free-throw line or the free-throw semicircle line- anytime before the ball hits the ring or backboard or the free-throw ends.

JR,
Are you saying that it is a violation for the FT shooter to step ON the semicircle line after receiving the ball?

[assignmentmaker]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

JR,
Are you saying that it is a violation for the FT shooter to step ON the semicircle line after receiving the ball?

Well, 9.1.8 enjoins players not in marked lane spaces from breaking the plane of the three-point line and the free-throw line extended, and 1-5-1 says the lane lines and the free-throw line are part of the lane . . . from which I would conclude that it's OK for the shooter to step on the three-point line semicircle . . .

If it's not, please reply quickly, I'm on my way out the door to a game!

[Edited by assignmentmaker on Feb 22nd, 2006 at 05:39 PM]

[HawkeyeCubP]

NFHS 9-1-7: "The free thrower shall not have either foot beyond the vertical plane of the edge of the free-throw line which is farther from the basket OR THE FREE-THROW SEMI-CIRCLE LINE."

(Sorry for the caps - I haven't figured out how to underline, bold, etc. on the forum.)

[CaliOne]

what if the raised part of the shooter's toe was directly behind or above the line. Upon shooting, the toe part comes in ever so slight contact with the black line? I've seen it quite a few times, have yet to call it, and I have never heard anyone complain. If your like shaq, however, and you take one big "stomp" over the free throw line during your shot, you should be penalized. using good judgement is the key. Some calls, however correct they may be, take away from the game IMO!!

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by HawkeyeCubP
NFHS 9-1-7: "The free thrower shall not have either foot beyond the vertical plane of the edge of the free-throw line which is farther from the basket OR THE FREE-THROW SEMI-CIRCLE LINE."

(Sorry for the caps - I haven't figured out how to underline, bold, etc. on the forum.)

Exactly my point. This speaks of the edge of the line which is farther from the basket. In the case of the semicircle that would be the edge which comes flush with the three point line. Therefore, it is ok to step ON this semicircle but not over it. At least that is my understanding. I was wondering if JR had a different conception.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by HawkeyeCubP
NFHS 9-1-7: "The free thrower shall not have either foot beyond the vertical plane of the edge of the free-throw line which is farther from the basket OR THE FREE-THROW SEMI-CIRCLE LINE."

(Sorry for the caps - I haven't figured out how to underline, bold, etc. on the forum.)

Bold is done by using the Bold Emphasis HTML tag, but with brackets instead of angle brackets.

IOW:

The key to the right of the P, then a b, then the key to the right of the key to the right of the P. Then your text. Then the same thing with a question-mark-slash (AKA slash) before the lowercase b.

Substitute u for underline and i for italics.

[HawkeyeCubP]

I'm interpreting the semicircle line the same as all other lane lines during a free-throw - the vertical planes of the boundaries of which cannot be broken by "either foot" (9-1-7, 9-1-8, 9-1-9) of the player occupying the area.

The ommission of a comma in 9-1-7, however, in "...farther from the basket (no comma here) or the free-throw semi-circle line," would provide a case for interpreting the semicircle line farthest from the basket to be the line whose vertical plane cannot be broken by either foot. So I see both sides. I'm still inclined to feel that the intent of the rule is to contain the free throw shooter inside of the insides of the lines that form the semicircle. It seems inconsistent that the rules would allow for the breaking of that particular vertical boundary line when the breaking all others during free throws are violations.

So the task, essentially, is to define the "free throw semi-circle," as laid out in 9-1-1, "The try shall be attempted from within the free-throw semicircle and behind the free throw line."

Anyone?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Exactly my point. This speaks of the edge of the line which is farther from the basket. In the case of the semicircle that would be the edge which comes flush with the three point line. Therefore, it is ok to step ON this semicircle but not over it. At least that is my understanding. I was wondering if JR had a different conception.

Actually JR don't really know for sure and JR don't really care. I've never seen a FT shooter wander around after getting the ball and step on the semi-circle line, and I doubt that I ever will either. Iow, JR is sorry that he mentioned the semi-circle line, because it ain't really relevant to what we've been discussing- which is a FT shooter stepping on or over the FT line after he's got the ball. That is a violation- which is why I cited that rule.

[HawkeyeCubP]

I (as C in 3-person, or T in 2-person) have had numerous players receive the bounce from the L while standing somewhere in the middle of the semi-circle, and then proceed to sort of rock back with one foot farther back than the other, or step back and then step up into their shooting stance and come very close to stepping on the inside of the line, and have, actually, had a player whose habit was to receive the ball with his heels just off said line (and then step up and starting bouncing the ball before shooting), who actually stepped ON the line (but not all the way over it). This of course happened directly in front of the opposing coach's chair with about one minute remaining in a very close, very heated boys JV game - and was also the first attempt of a one-and-one. I was a second-year official, was dumbfounded, and took a bit of verbal and staring abuse from the offended coach in the ensuing time out that he called before the second shot (the first, of course, went through, as did the second) just to "ask" why I hadn't called a violation.

And I'm spent.