Go ahead, shame me.... - Page 4

lmeadski · #46 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 13, 2006, 04:38pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Quote:

Originally posted by lmeadski

So shame on me for calling him stripes (was that truly disrespectful?) and getting lit up (true or false)? And, at what point would this community feel I needed to step up to protect my players' best interest and get into the ref's soup (In a side bar, I calmly approached him at the next dead ball, expressed my concern about the lack of calls with rough play, and he offers: I didn't see it, turns and walks away)?

After reading through the thread I'll add my $.02:

These 11 year old games are usually brutal - players, fans & coaches are generally out of control and the officials generally don't have enough experience to know how to handle it. As you've written your story here it sounds like too much was being let go. BUT...as others have said I think there's an entirely different side of this story waiting to be told by the officials. At some point if the game was truly getting too rough you should have just gone & quietly spoken to the other coach about it, and then tournament staff if the coach didn't agree to help calm things down. That option probably had much more potential for success than getting "into the ref's soup", whatever that means.

Agreed. In retrospect I think that would have worked better. I wasn't upset about the foul initially, calls will be missed. I was concerned that, at this level, with girls, the play was allowed to continue as our girl lay in a heap. Remember, the lead on the play (who was now the trail) looked back at this girl twice as play resumed. We were saying there was an injured player. Only after we got the whistle (team had since shot twice until we secured the rebound), and I saw the extent of the "no contact" on the girl's face and eye, did I question the official. I became more disappointed as the rough play continued. Funny thing is, the team was from a neighboring town. We had already worked out plans for a scrimmage in the coming weeks (which we intend to keep, their girls wouldn't try to purposely injure our girls). However, as many have said, at this age some of these games turn into brawls. I would expect an official to know that and call the game accordingly. My PRIMARY responsiblity that day, and at that moment, was to my players. Again, I wanted discussion on the irony of the situation and input how best to handle it in the future (also, wanted feedback on whether any of you would be offended being called "Stripes"). I am not looking for any validation for my actions.

[Edited by lmeadski on Feb 13th, 2006 at 04:41 PM]

mick · #47 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 13, 2006, 04:57pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by mick

Oatmeal Queen was telling me how much she thinks of you. [/B]

YU.P.
And she's a nice person. [/B][/QUOTE]
That's........nice.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Okay. JR, yer nice, too..., when you wanna be.

rockyroad · #48 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 13, 2006, 05:09pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mick

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by mick

Oatmeal Queen was telling me how much she thinks of you.

YU.P.
And she's a nice person. [/B]

That's........nice.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Okay. JR, yer nice, too..., when you wanna be.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Hey, you already used that picture! Get some new material...and mick, does Mrs. mick know how much Oatmeal thinks of you?????

Yeah, yeah, I know JR. I'll say it for you...shutup.

Jurassic Referee · #49 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 13, 2006, 05:18pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rockyroad
[/B]

Hey, you already used that picture! Get some new material [/B][/QUOTE]Bad rocky...

Bad, bad rocky.....

And don't forget to let your students see what happens to their teacher when he's a bad boy.

mick · #50 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 13, 2006, 05:30pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rockyroad
Hey, you already used that picture! Get some new material...and mick, does Mrs. mick know how much Oatmeal thinks of you?????

To answer your question, dj.:

Yes. My wife, as well as oatmealqueen, can spell *hyperbole*.

rockyroad · #51 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 13, 2006, 05:31pm

ROFLMAO...good thing the students left about 5 minutes ago!!

Dan_ref · #52 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 13, 2006, 11:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by lmeadski

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Quote:

Originally posted by lmeadski

So shame on me for calling him stripes (was that truly disrespectful?) and getting lit up (true or false)? And, at what point would this community feel I needed to step up to protect my players' best interest and get into the ref's soup (In a side bar, I calmly approached him at the next dead ball, expressed my concern about the lack of calls with rough play, and he offers: I didn't see it, turns and walks away)?

After reading through the thread I'll add my $.02:

These 11 year old games are usually brutal - players, fans & coaches are generally out of control and the officials generally don't have enough experience to know how to handle it. As you've written your story here it sounds like too much was being let go. BUT...as others have said I think there's an entirely different side of this story waiting to be told by the officials. At some point if the game was truly getting too rough you should have just gone & quietly spoken to the other coach about it, and then tournament staff if the coach didn't agree to help calm things down. That option probably had much more potential for success than getting "into the ref's soup", whatever that means.

Agreed. In retrospect I think that would have worked better. I wasn't upset about the foul initially, calls will be missed. I was concerned that, at this level, with girls, the play was allowed to continue as our girl lay in a heap. Remember, the lead on the play (who was now the trail) looked back at this girl twice as play resumed. We were saying there was an injured player. Only after we got the whistle (team had since shot twice until we secured the rebound), and I saw the extent of the "no contact" on the girl's face and eye, did I question the official. I became more disappointed as the rough play continued. Funny thing is, the team was from a neighboring town. We had already worked out plans for a scrimmage in the coming weeks (which we intend to keep, their girls wouldn't try to purposely injure our girls). However, as many have said, at this age some of these games turn into brawls. I would expect an official to know that and call the game accordingly. My PRIMARY responsiblity that day, and at that moment, was to my players. Again, I wanted discussion on the irony of the situation and input how best to handle it in the future (also, wanted feedback on whether any of you would be offended being called "Stripes"). I am not looking for any validation for my actions.

[Edited by lmeadski on Feb 13th, 2006 at 04:41 PM]

You want irony? Try this...

You admit the best course of action would have been to talk to the opposing coach - the guy you're scheduling scrimmages with because they would never purposely hurt your players other than the odd bloody mouth or swollen eye - about the behavior of his players.

And still you want to somehow blame the officials because the other team was out of control in terms of your players getting injured...and if they were justified in T'ing you up.

I gotta admit, I don't get it.

lmeadski · #53 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 14, 2006, 08:00am

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Quote:

Originally posted by lmeadski

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Quote:

Originally posted by lmeadski

So shame on me for calling him stripes (was that truly disrespectful?) and getting lit up (true or false)? And, at what point would this community feel I needed to step up to protect my players' best interest and get into the ref's soup (In a side bar, I calmly approached him at the next dead ball, expressed my concern about the lack of calls with rough play, and he offers: I didn't see it, turns and walks away)?

After reading through the thread I'll add my $.02:

These 11 year old games are usually brutal - players, fans & coaches are generally out of control and the officials generally don't have enough experience to know how to handle it. As you've written your story here it sounds like too much was being let go. BUT...as others have said I think there's an entirely different side of this story waiting to be told by the officials. At some point if the game was truly getting too rough you should have just gone & quietly spoken to the other coach about it, and then tournament staff if the coach didn't agree to help calm things down. That option probably had much more potential for success than getting "into the ref's soup", whatever that means.

Agreed. In retrospect I think that would have worked better. I wasn't upset about the foul initially, calls will be missed. I was concerned that, at this level, with girls, the play was allowed to continue as our girl lay in a heap. Remember, the lead on the play (who was now the trail) looked back at this girl twice as play resumed. We were saying there was an injured player. Only after we got the whistle (team had since shot twice until we secured the rebound), and I saw the extent of the "no contact" on the girl's face and eye, did I question the official. I became more disappointed as the rough play continued. Funny thing is, the team was from a neighboring town. We had already worked out plans for a scrimmage in the coming weeks (which we intend to keep, their girls wouldn't try to purposely injure our girls). However, as many have said, at this age some of these games turn into brawls. I would expect an official to know that and call the game accordingly. My PRIMARY responsiblity that day, and at that moment, was to my players. Again, I wanted discussion on the irony of the situation and input how best to handle it in the future (also, wanted feedback on whether any of you would be offended being called "Stripes"). I am not looking for any validation for my actions.

[Edited by lmeadski on Feb 13th, 2006 at 04:41 PM]

You want irony? Try this...

You admit the best course of action would have been to talk to the opposing coach - the guy you're scheduling scrimmages with because they would never purposely hurt your players other than the odd bloody mouth or swollen eye - about the behavior of his players.

And still you want to somehow blame the officials because the other team was out of control in terms of your players getting injured...and if they were justified in T'ing you up.

I gotta admit, I don't get it.

And I have to admit, I can't understand why you can't get the point of my post?! I posted this due to the irony of being a coach and a ref. I never said I didn't deserve a T. I was surprised the reason I got one was for calling him Stripes, and not for commenting on cleaning up the game play. I was primiarly upset because they WOULDN'T STOP PLAY FOR THE INJURED PLAYER. I did mention I wouldn't have argued if this were high school ball. They were 11 and 12 year old girls in a tournament with no trophies, medals, etc. Did you read the post that said after they went into bonus, the rough play ended? Gee, go figure!

And yes, we will play them again, and I will find officials who will ref the game a bit tighter so as to keep rough play at a minimum.

lmeadski · #54 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 14, 2006, 08:27am

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Quote:

Originally posted by lmeadski

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Quote:

Originally posted by lmeadski

So shame on me for calling him stripes (was that truly disrespectful?) and getting lit up (true or false)? And, at what point would this community feel I needed to step up to protect my players' best interest and get into the ref's soup (In a side bar, I calmly approached him at the next dead ball, expressed my concern about the lack of calls with rough play, and he offers: I didn't see it, turns and walks away)?

After reading through the thread I'll add my $.02:

These 11 year old games are usually brutal - players, fans & coaches are generally out of control and the officials generally don't have enough experience to know how to handle it. As you've written your story here it sounds like too much was being let go. BUT...as others have said I think there's an entirely different side of this story waiting to be told by the officials. At some point if the game was truly getting too rough you should have just gone & quietly spoken to the other coach about it, and then tournament staff if the coach didn't agree to help calm things down. That option probably had much more potential for success than getting "into the ref's soup", whatever that means.

Agreed. In retrospect I think that would have worked better. I wasn't upset about the foul initially, calls will be missed. I was concerned that, at this level, with girls, the play was allowed to continue as our girl lay in a heap. Remember, the lead on the play (who was now the trail) looked back at this girl twice as play resumed. We were saying there was an injured player. Only after we got the whistle (team had since shot twice until we secured the rebound), and I saw the extent of the "no contact" on the girl's face and eye, did I question the official. I became more disappointed as the rough play continued. Funny thing is, the team was from a neighboring town. We had already worked out plans for a scrimmage in the coming weeks (which we intend to keep, their girls wouldn't try to purposely injure our girls). However, as many have said, at this age some of these games turn into brawls. I would expect an official to know that and call the game accordingly. My PRIMARY responsiblity that day, and at that moment, was to my players. Again, I wanted discussion on the irony of the situation and input how best to handle it in the future (also, wanted feedback on whether any of you would be offended being called "Stripes"). I am not looking for any validation for my actions.

[Edited by lmeadski on Feb 13th, 2006 at 04:41 PM]

You want irony? Try this...

You admit the best course of action would have been to talk to the opposing coach - the guy you're scheduling scrimmages with because they would never purposely hurt your players other than the odd bloody mouth or swollen eye - about the behavior of his players.

And still you want to somehow blame the officials because the other team was out of control in terms of your players getting injured...and if they were justified in T'ing you up.

I gotta admit, I don't get it.

By the way, I misread your prior thread. I would not have approached the coach alone to discuss HER players actions. I would have approached her to discuss cleaning up play with the officials. I think it would be important to include the refs in the discussion as it's one of the refs jobs to try keep game play fluid and from getting out of control. In this game, once we hit bonus, coach was all over her girls to limit the reach ins and other aggressive play. Guess what, rough play ended! Its not rocket science, Dan.

Dan_ref · #55 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 14, 2006, 10:14am

Quote:

Originally posted by lmeadski
Its not rocket science, Dan.

No, it's not.

Rough play can always be stopped by the coach, especially at the age level we're discussing.

But it's the official's fault.

Go figure.

Anyway, enjoy the rest of your season.

lmeadski · #56 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 14, 2006, 10:19am

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Quote:

Originally posted by lmeadski
Its not rocket science, Dan.

No, it's not.

Rough play can always be stopped by the coach, especially at the age level we're discussing.

But it's the official's fault.

Go figure.

Anyway, enjoy the rest of your season.

Rough play can be stopped by the coach and/or managed by the refs. Refs control rough play by calling fouls and enforcing the rules. Ever had an ingame conference with your fellow refs in a game where rough play is escalataing? Go figure.

[Edited by lmeadski on Feb 14th, 2006 at 10:33 AM]

Dan_ref · #57 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 14, 2006, 10:26am

Quote:

Originally posted by lmeadski

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Quote:

Originally posted by lmeadski
Its not rocket science, Dan.

No, it's not.

Rough play can always be stopped by the coach, especially at the age level we're discussing.

But it's the official's fault.

Go figure.

Anyway, enjoy the rest of your season.

Rough play can be stopped by the coach and/or managed by the refs. Go figure.

But by your own admission the refs were not helping.

Which means the responsibility falls to the coaches.

Glad we can agree on something.

Jurassic Referee · #58 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 14, 2006, 10:31am

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
[/B]

Rough play can always be stopped by the coach, especially at the age level we're discussing.

[/B][/QUOTE]Gasp.....

Are you intimating that a coach might just possibly... maybe have the teeniest, weeniest, slightest, minisculest bit of responsibility for the way his kids actually play?

What a novel concept!

It'll never catch on though. It's always sooooooo much easier to blame the real culprits- the officials.

Cleopatra wasn't the only Queen of Denile.

lmeadski · #59 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 14, 2006, 10:44am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Rough play can always be stopped by the coach, especially at the age level we're discussing.

[/B]

Gasp.....

Are you intimating that a coach might just possibly... maybe have the teeniest, weeniest, slightest, minisculest bit of responsibility for the way his kids actually play?

What a novel concept!

It'll never catch on though. It's always sooooooo much easier to blame the real culprits- the officials.

Cleopatra wasn't the only Queen of Denile.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Coaches and players have first and full responsibility for how kids play. Referees are in position to INFLUENCE how the kids play and how the coaches act by enforcing the rules. If the coaches and players continue their aggressive play, rule enforcement will amply penalize them: bonus, double bonus, flagrant fouls and maybe technicals. Continued non-compliance only hurts the offending team and it is their prerogative to act any way they choose. Denial is thinking that refs have no influence on a game. Of course we do, and, depending how tight or loose we call a game, undue influence.

lmeadski · #60 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 14, 2006, 10:48am

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Quote:

Originally posted by lmeadski

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Quote:

Originally posted by lmeadski
Its not rocket science, Dan.

No, it's not.

Rough play can always be stopped by the coach, especially at the age level we're discussing.

But it's the official's fault.

Go figure.

Anyway, enjoy the rest of your season.

Rough play can be stopped by the coach and/or managed by the refs. Go figure.

But by your own admission the refs were not helping.

Which means the responsibility falls to the coaches.

Glad we can agree on something.

The logical assumption in your statement is that the refs have first responsibility for rough play, coaches second (...responsibility falls to the coaches). Hhhhmmmmmm. See my prior post on this matter....

[Edited by lmeadski on Feb 14th, 2006 at 10:51 AM]