Varsity player dunks during JV halftime

[BayStateRef]

I spoke with the interpreter to discuss his reasoning. (Chuck...the interp. is John Karo of Board 54. He said this first came up in S.E. Mass. and was brought to his attention by Lefty Duval, interp. for Board 30. John said it has not been vetted by IAABOÂ’s Peter Webb or by the MSBOA.)

He is backing his interpretation on the definition of “team member” to include any person in uniform and taking part in the team’s lay-up line or shoot around. He said that as officials we have no way to know if a varsity player (or any other player), who is in uniform, is part of the team or not. Perhaps the varsity coach wants this player to play with the JV for one half and is willing to accept the administrative T for adding him to the book at halftime.

He said if he is not part of the team, then he should not be on the court at halftime with the rest of the JV. If he is there and he dunks, then he has to be assessed a technical since he “clearly” is a “team member.”

While I am still troubled by this interpretation, I understand the reasoning: why else would a player, in uniform, be with the rest of the JV team if he is not a “team member.” It is up to the coach (JV or Varsity) to keep this kid off the court if he is not part of the team.

[Brad]

He's wrong.

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by Brad
He's wrong.

Says who?

[Junker]

I say assess both technicals. It will teach the kid not to be a bonehead. The coach needs to control this stuff. If you let him off with a verbal warning it doesn't carry as much weight as the T. I agree with the interp that if the player is in a uniform, they are part of the team. Around some of the smaller schools, you might have a player that plays some in the JV game and some in the Varsity and that player may have a different uniform. To me, if they are on the floor, in a uniform, they better be in the book. Otherwise, stick to warm ups before their game.

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by JRutledge
The rules do not cover that kind of situation.

Originally posted by JRutledge
You need to go review the rule on this.

Gee Rut...now you have me really confused.

[Nate1224hoops]

Like I said, just like players and coaches are different, so are officials. I see no reason to T in this situation b/c I feel it could be handled w/out a T. Some would rather T and let it be done. I personally dont know why you would, except for the fact that you dont want to find out if this new face (V player) is on the V team or JV team. To me, the T is the easy way out.

[Brad]

I think now I remember why I don't visit the forums that much.

Use common sense - it's easy to determine if the player is on the JV team... He's either listed in the book or he isn't.

Do whatever your assignor/interpreter tells you to do - they are the ones that assign your games - but I am just amazed that he can interpret the rules this way.

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by Nate1224hoops
To me, the T is the easy way out.

Your kidding...right?

Just shooing the kid off the floor seems easier to me then;

Issuing a T, logging it in the book, advising the Coach of the seatbelt rule, shooting the FT's, administering the ball at midcourt, making sure the AP arrow is correct, and worst of all...buying the brewskys for the crew, after the game, for the BS you created by not just shooing the player off the floor.

[Dan_ref]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nate1224hoops

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Dan, just give the T. It's one of those situations where you wouldnt catch any flack for giving a T or not. I prefer not to give unnecessary T's. I feel that this one could be avoided. You, on the other hand, may like the T and in this situation the T could be justified.

Nate, I don't like the T in this situation.

Just fanning the flames a bit.

But something I've learned is to never say that something can not happen during a basketball game.

If it can happen it will at the worst possible time.

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally posted by RookieDude

Your kidding...right?

Just shooing the kid off the floor seems easier to me then;

Issuing a T, logging it in the book, advising the Coach of the seatbelt rule, shooting the FT's, administering the ball at midcourt, making sure the AP arrow is correct, and worst of all...buying the brewskys for the crew, after the game, for the BS you created by not just shooing the player off the floor.

To me the right and hard thing to do would be to find out which team this unknown player actually plays for (V or JV). Check the books to make sure. Then if he is on the JV, access the T. If not, pull him off the court explain the implications to him. Let his coach as well as the JV coach know what he did and go from there. Why punish the JV PLAYERS/TEAM for something they didnt do....sporting???

When I decide whether or not to assess a T, I make an extrememly quick decision, will the call make the game better? Using this question, my decision on this is an easy one.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by RookieDude

Gee Rut...now you have me really confused.

Of course you would be. The rules allow for a "team member" to be penalized dunking during warm-ups. This is not a "team member." He is not listed in the book or associated with the team that is in the locker room at half time. If you give a T for this, you are not following any rule on this, you are making it up. You can do that to some extent because the rules allow the Referee to rule on things not specifically covered in the rulebook (this situation is not covered anywhere that I have seen). I just think that would be wrong and not good common sense officiating. You also said to put the player in the book and where do the rules say to do that (which is why you need to review the rules on this)? As someone said you would have to give a T for putting a player in the book that was not listed before the 10 minute mark before game time.

Using your application would be over-officious if you ask me.

Peace

[JCrow]

I think Chuck Elias is 100% correct. Granted, if you call the "T" maybe you save the kid from doing something really dumb at Tourney time but.....if you handle it with some restraint, you can teach the lesson and not detract from the atmosphere of the current contest. Nothing looks worse than the starting a 1/2 off with a "T" for something administrative. It poisons the second half.

Chuck - "Go Durfee"!

[assignmentmaker]

Originally posted by JCrow
I think Chuck Elias is 100% correct. Granted, if you call the "T" maybe you save the kid from doing something really dumb at Tourney time but.....if you handle it with some restraint, you can teach the lesson and not detract from the atmosphere of the current contest. Nothing looks worse than the starting a 1/2 off with a "T" for something administrative. It poisons the second half.

Chuck - "Go Durfee"!

JCrow - "Go New Bedford"

If I really liked the dunk, if the kid showed me something, I would first ask for what AAU team he played in the off-season. If I wanted to recruit him, no T.

Not.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by BayStateRef
(Chuck...the interp. is John Karo of Board 54. He said this first came up in S.E. Mass. and was brought to his attention by Lefty Duval, interp. for Board 30. John said it has not been vetted by IAABOÂ’s Peter Webb or by the MSBOA.)

Ok, I know Lefty and have met John. There is an interpreter's conference call this weekend with Peter Webb. Maybe one of them will bring this topic up for discussion.

He said that as officials we have no way to know if a varsity player (or any other player), who is in uniform, is part of the team or not.

I guess this is what I disagree with. If he's in the book, he's a team member. Otherwise, he's not. If he's in the book, whack him. If not, get him off the court. But I wouldn't T in that case. And for darn sure, I wouldn't T and then add to the book with a second T.

Hopefully, we'll get some kind of resolution to this over the weekend.