Varsity player dunks during JV halftime

[Ref Daddy]

This is a tough call - and based on splitting hairs.
1) what defines a "team"
2) V or JV?
3) Who's in control? Ref, Coach? Which coach?

The rule is blunt (Player shall not dunk or grasp during pregame or intermission.

I read in the spirt of the rule that warm-ups are a controlled, non-aggressive or non-spectacular period.

How can another "player" be allowed an exception?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
So this is your practice ANY time a player dunks pregame or at the half?

No, usually I pretend that I had dust in my eye at the time of the dunk and then tell the offender to knock it off.

Seriously, if it's at halftime, I know who the team's players are. If it's pregame, the JV players are already in the locker room. If it's pregame of the JV game, then yes, I would go to the table if I had any doubt.

What if she says no?

That's easy. Then I'd get the kid off the court and no T. If the kid is not on the team, then it's as if a fan came on the court and dunked. Get him off the court and no T.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

No, usually I pretend that I had dust in my eye at the time of the dunk and then tell the offender to knock it off.

Seriously, if it's at halftime, I know who the team's players are. If it's pregame, the JV players are already in the locker room. If it's pregame of the JV game, then yes, I would go to the table if I had any doubt.

That's easy. Then I'd get the kid off the court and no T. If the kid is not on the team, then it's as if a fan came on the court and dunked. Get him off the court and no T.

Oops, forgot to ask: what if she is WRONG A1 starts the game?

What if a fan came on the court pregame & dunked the ball?

You just shoo him back into the stands? Maybe shake his hand first?

[Nate1224hoops]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Nate, I don't care when it happens.

I'm just wondering how Chuck (and you) handle this in general. I see in your case you give him a warning. A warning for what?

Well IMO when it happens is important. If a varsity player comes out with the JV team, dressed identically and goest through the 20 min. warmup then I, like you, would have to access a T. Why? B/c how am I suppose to know he is V. Is this going to happen. NO. Would it be possible for a V player to come out at halftime and shoot around with the JV. YES. If I could identify him as a V player then I wouldnt T. Otherwise I would until I found out otherwise.

[Dan_ref]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nate1224hoops

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Is this going to happen. NO.

Famous last words.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by RookieDude
Why is there a rule requiring the officials to issue a T to a "player" dunking the ball during warm-ups?

It is classified as a Player Technical, but the rule explicitly states that it applies to all team members, not just players.

But, it is not my decision...it is what the NFHS (and apparently the board interp) wants...a T.

As I said earlier, it is not at all clear that the FED wants a technical foul called in this situation. IAABO has not issued an interp on this, as far as I know. And I know for sure that the MSBOA has not issued an interpretation of its own. There should be no such thing as a "board interp", if you're referring to BayStateRef's local association. Individual IAABO boards are not authorized to give interpretations that are contrary to the FED rules and/or state adoptions.

So why are you giving the "show off" Varsity player a free pass in the JV warm-ups, when you wouldn't in the V warm-ups?

Because as BayStateRef pointed out in the original post, the Varsity player is not a "team member" of the JV team.

there could be some confusion in the crowd.

And how would that be different from any other rule that is applied during the game? IOW, I don't give a rat's patootie about what the crowd thinks.

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by Nate1224hoops
If I could identify him as a V player then I wouldnt T.

Even if you were instructed to do so by your Board interp...as the original poster was?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Oops, forgot to ask: what if she is WRONG A1 starts the game?

Oh well. Guess he got away with one. If you're really dying to throw the T, you probably still could, since the game hasn't started yet.

What if a fan came on the court pregame & dunked the ball?

You just shoo him back into the stands? Maybe shake his hand first?

Yup, shoo him back into the stands. Then let game management know what he did. I wouldn't shake his hand.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by RookieDude

Even if you were instructed to do so by your Board interp...as the original poster was?

Well, sure, if the interpreter was incorrect.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by RookieDude
Chuck and JRut...
Why is there a rule requiring the officials to issue a T to a "player" dunking the ball during warm-ups?

The rule covers team members, not players that are not at all associated with the team. By rule you have a player that is not even listed in the book dunking. The rules do not cover that kind of situation. Until the rules cover that situation, it is up to the Referee to decide what to do.

Originally posted by RookieDude
IMO...I could care less if the players dunk the ball while I'm on the court. In fact, I would like to see it...who doesn't like to see a dunk? But, it is not my decision...it is what the NFHS (and apparently the board interp) wants...a T.

They want a T for players associated with the team. Are you going to give a T for some kid coming out of the stands dunking that is in street clothes? You need to go review the rule on this.

Originally posted by RookieDude
So back to the original question. For whatever reason NFHS does not want dunks during pregame. (Injuries, showing up officials, Sportsmanship issues, etc.)

So why are you giving the "show off" Varsity player a free pass in the JV warm-ups, when you wouldn't in the V warm-ups?

As I stated, you need to go review the rule. The rule does not say you give a T for individuals not associated with the team.

Originally posted by RookieDude
Also...not that it matters much...but, there could be some confusion in the crowd. Why are the officials letting this "player" dunk (penalty free), when they won't let the other "players" dunk? Looks inconsistent...IMO.

Who cares what the fans think? I know I sure as hell do not. Fans think to call a player-control foul the defender must have their feet in concrete, so why would I worry if the fans do not know the rules.

Peace

[deecee]

T em all up -- let the over judicious reich take control and run a T up for everyone they "think" should get one.

this is funny -- varsity player dunks during JV half time (when the rule says players cant dunk during warmups and halftime of their game) -- what if you are driving by and see this same varsity player dunk on an outdoor court -- are you going to get out of you car and assess a technical foul on him then drive to his school and tell his coach his next game his opponent will start off with 2 free throws and the ball because you saw his player dunking during a street game warmup?

absurd isnt it...

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Oh well. Guess he got away with one. If you're really dying to throw the T, you probably still could, since the game hasn't started yet.

Yup, shoo him back into the stands. Then let game management know what he did. I wouldn't shake his hand.

Well, I'm not dying to do anything, least of all T some stupid kid for showing off.

Anyways...if a fan dunks at pregame you'll notify game management because he's obviously not affiliated with either team. I agree.

But wait! You're gonna let the varsity kid off without a T because he's not affiliated with either team...so you're gonna rat the varsity player out to game management?

(Persnickety, nice word )

[rockyroad]

I'm gonna T the player...then I T the coach twice and toss him...then I T the Varsity coach sitting in the stands...then I toss the scorekeeper and clock operator...then I go down and start a fistfight with one of my partners (the smallest one preferably)...then I - wait, err...sorry. Guess I'm still just grumpy about Sunday.

If the "powers that be" tell me to handle it with the T's, then that's how it should be handled...otherwise, walk down there and get his a$$ off the court and then go have a chat with the coaches - he'll be running a little extra in practice the next day!

[Nate1224hoops]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dan_ref

Originally posted by Nate1224hoops

Famous last words.

Dan, just give the T. It's one of those situations where you wouldnt catch any flack for giving a T or not. I prefer not to give unnecessary T's. I feel that this one could be avoided. You, on the other hand, may like the T and in this situation the T could be justified.

[Brad]

I rarely get to visit the boards much anymore, but when I saw the thread title I knew it was going to be a good one!

Our board interpreter said it should be a T for the dunk and the official should have the scorer add the varsity player to the score book. Then it is a second T for the administrative penalty.

Come on - that is the worst possible interpretation! You give a technical for a player dunking at halftime. Then you find out he is not a player - so, by rule, you really can't issue the T. The solution? Add him to the book!! Oh yeah, then issue a book technical for that!! Let's start the 2nd half with 4 free throws and let's seatbelt the coach, since it's an indirect against him!

I don't know whether to laugh or cry!

Use some common sense here... If the player is on the JV squad (i.e. is ALREADY in the book), give him the tech - otherwise just get him off of the court and move on with the game.