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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 28, 2006, 12:51am
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I think this must be an officially declared event and it was this week. Several of you have described horrible game this week, and I had a real lulu tonight. 1A girls' varsity. These schools don't even have JV teams -- too small. Visitor's book person was incredibly partisan and got pretty vocal by the end. Visitor coach tossed in the third quarter. Wouldn't leave. No assistant to sit on the bench. Had to have a major conference about who was allowed to take over. Over 50 fouls. Worst of all, the visitors came really close to catching up by the end, and we almost had OT. 4 more minutes of that stuff, and I'd have applied for combat pay.
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Old Sat Jan 28, 2006, 01:20am
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Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
I think this must be an officially declared event and it was this week. Several of you have described horrible game this week, and I had a real lulu tonight. 1A girls' varsity. These schools don't even have JV teams -- too small. Visitor's book person was incredibly partisan and got pretty vocal by the end. Visitor coach tossed in the third quarter. Wouldn't leave. No assistant to sit on the bench. Had to have a major conference about who was allowed to take over. Over 50 fouls. Worst of all, the visitors came really close to catching up by the end, and we almost had OT. 4 more minutes of that stuff, and I'd have applied for combat pay.
Hmmmm, coach tossed, no assistant - unless they had their AD or another school employee to take over it sounds like a forfeit to me Juulie.....

I had a 4A F/JV girls double header tonight - DDHS @ Central Catholic. First game was about what you'd expect, but the JV was actually pretty good. Now if I can only make it through the 3 G8 tournament games I have at Sunset this weekend....
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Old Sat Jan 28, 2006, 08:24am
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I certainly agree that the stars have been crossed this week.


Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
Visitor's book person was incredibly partisan and got pretty vocal by the end.
As for this, I would never put up with this. You don't need this person for anything, so just remove him and tell him not to let the door hit him on the way out.

The scorer and timer are part of your crew for that night and should support you and you them.

Tonight was a good example. I actually observed a father yelling at the scorer and timer during the jv game. I was sitting quietly off to the side in street clothes since I arrived early. It was obvious that he was really bothering them. One time the scorer even turned around and yelled at the guy when he complained that the 1-1 wasn't being awarded after a PC foul. When I took the floor for the varsity contest, I had to check the book and I let the table crew know, in not so quiet a voice so that this guy could hear me, that if anyone in the stands gave them a hard time during the game all they had to do was say the word and I would be happy to remove that person.

You should have seen their faces. They just loved our crew after that. Talk about scoring points, if there had been a place on the scoreboard for officials between the home and visitor score, I think that we would have won the contest.

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Old Sat Jan 28, 2006, 12:25pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by TimTaylor
Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
I think this must be an officially declared event and it was this week. Several of you have described horrible game this week, and I had a real lulu tonight. 1A girls' varsity. These schools don't even have JV teams -- too small. Visitor's book person was incredibly partisan and got pretty vocal by the end. Visitor coach tossed in the third quarter. Wouldn't leave. No assistant to sit on the bench. Had to have a major conference about who was allowed to take over. Over 50 fouls. Worst of all, the visitors came really close to catching up by the end, and we almost had OT. 4 more minutes of that stuff, and I'd have applied for combat pay.
Hmmmm, coach tossed, no assistant - unless they had their AD or another school employee to take over it sounds like a forfeit to me Juulie.....

I had a 4A F/JV girls double header tonight - DDHS @ Central Catholic. First game was about what you'd expect, but the JV was actually pretty good. Now if I can only make it through the 3 G8 tournament games I have at Sunset this weekend....
The varsity game must have been pretty unpleasant, though. blow-out times ten!

I would have forfeited the game if the boys' V coach hadn't sat in and taken over. The huge conference was over who could legally do the job. My partner was trying to insist that whoever filled in had to be approved, hired, or whatever, I didn't pay a lot of attention. Finally I got the boys' coach aside and said, look, we don't have anything to say about this. Legally, it's your problem not ours. Whoever you choose is fine with us. I think in the end it was a teacher from the school who is the JH coach. He did a pretty good job, and the team came back from an 18 point deficit to only lose by 4.

Just for the record, the visitors were Heritage Christian. I knew you'd be asking about that....
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Old Sun Jan 29, 2006, 10:00am
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I swear, I had the thought on Wed. that our Y League has been so sportsmanlike this year (5 weeks in) that we were due for a "nutty". We go to great efforts to have parity. We do Player Evaluations - Ratings - A Formal Draft. Some years it works better than others. This year it didn't work too well. If you ever run a Youth League, my advice is the only Car Pool considerations to grant are for siblings. Brothers & Sisters and that's it.

Reffing a 5-6 Grade Blow-out, yesterday by myself. Coach of team that was ahead calls T/O in first half. I turn and grant it. Only problem...the other Team has the ball! When I see that I messed up, I explain, "Sorry Coach. Can't have it until you have the ball or it's dead." I put the ball back in play. No big deal.

Second half blowout. Final 40-15. Quiet game - both Coaches gentleman. I leave court and go to the water bubbler. I come back for next game and both Coaches are in eachothers' faces, pushing & shoving. Very, very hot. I grab the Winning Coach who I had to physically restrain from going after the Losing Coach?!! Apparently, the Losing Coach said something about the TO Play??!!! (Blow-outs create a lot of resentments.)

The Winning Coach is strugging to throw a punch...dropping the F-Bomb in front of the grandmothers?!!!He's no kid, either, he's in his 40's. Seemed like a nice guy all year? (This is the all time Yuppie town, too, these parents are like Drs., Lawyers, Accountants,...)

It's bizzare to me. How can two adults risk the results of hand-to-hand combat over a 5-6 Basketball Game? It's just crazy. In Mass, we had a death between two adults over Youth Hockey a few years back. I seriously don't get it....and probbaly never will.

I Coach my 9-12 Grade Team on Sunday. I'm sure the issue of what we do to the two Coaches will come up as we have a Volunteer Advisory Board that I'm on. I'm not a very "by-the-book" person and these are "good" parents....actively involved with their kids....but what do you do? If two guys are whacky enough to duke it out over a biddy game, it's not responsible to keep them around, right?

I'm down.....blah.....





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Old Sun Jan 29, 2006, 11:18am
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Juulie:

In Oregon there must be an ASEP certified person on the bench of any OSAA sponsored game.

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Old Sun Jan 29, 2006, 11:23am
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JCrow, you gotta teach them a lesson and send a message to the rest of the coaches/ parents that this behavior will not be accepted.
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Old Sun Jan 29, 2006, 04:25pm
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Chris,

I agree with you. I told one of the guys on our Advisory Comittee that I recommend that both Coaches not be allowed to coach unless they got together and apologized to their kids about the terrible example they set.

Too many kids carry guns and knifes today to encourage 5-6 graders to resolve grudges physically.

My 9-12 Team got beat by 8 today. They had great heart and bounced back after a bad blow-out last week. I was proud of them.

In the Game prior to ours, a Coach took off his glasses and asked the Ref (IABBO) if he wanted to borrow them? No Tech. I'd whack any Coach for that. Never seen a Coach do that one and I wear glasses! At least it was creative.
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Old Sun Jan 29, 2006, 04:34pm
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Re: Juulie:

Quote:
Originally posted by Tim C
In Oregon there must be an ASEP certified person on the bench of any OSAA sponsored game.

Since when do the officials care? If the replacement coach isn't certified, the state office will take care of it. The name of the replacement would go into the report. Would you ask for a membership card?
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Old Sun Jan 29, 2006, 04:50pm
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Just a question I have in all of this. Is the person who keeps the visitors' scorebook bench personnel since that person is not the official scorer?
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Old Sun Jan 29, 2006, 05:07pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by 26 Year Gap
Just a question I have in all of this. Is the person who keeps the visitors' scorebook bench personnel since that person is not the official scorer?
2-1-2 specifies an official scorer.

2-22-11 makes mention of 'the visiting scorer', recommending that the official scorer compare records with the visiting scorer's records after each goal, foul, charged timeout, and end of quarter and extra period.

4-34-2 says that " . . . Bench personnel are all individuals who are part of or affiliated with a team, including, but not limited to: coaches, manager(s), and statistician(s).

4.34.2 (Casebook) makes it clear that it's a T on the bench if the ahtletic trainer, seated on the bench, throws a towel on the floor in reaction to a call by an official.

In the light of the foregoing, subject to more light, of course, here's how I treat it. If the visiting scorer is seated at the table, and, optimally, next to the official scorer per mandate in the rules (somewhere), I treat the person as my responsibily, if I am the Ref. If the person 'misbehaves' (refuses to stop cheering for his/her team from the table), I will banish the person to their bench. From there, if they misbehave, I will asses a bench T.
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Old Sun Jan 29, 2006, 05:10pm
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Thanks, that makes a lot of sense, though it is more likely to be an AAU issue.
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Old Sun Jan 29, 2006, 05:33pm
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Re: Juulie:

Quote:
Originally posted by Tim C
In Oregon there must be an ASEP certified person on the bench of any OSAA sponsored game.
Yea, I know, my partner made that very clear. But as refs, it's not our concern is it? I mean, if there's an adult sitting there, we don't need to ask to see his credentials? I'm sure I've been told that it's not an issue for us.
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Old Sun Jan 29, 2006, 11:22pm
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Re: Juulie:

Quote:
Originally posted by Tim C
In Oregon there must be an ASEP certified person on the bench of any OSAA sponsored game.

So Tim, were you the OAOA person at the PBOA meeting Wed eve Jan 18?
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Old Mon Jan 30, 2006, 01:17am
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Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by Tim C
In Oregon there must be an ASEP certified person on the bench of any OSAA sponsored game.
Yea, I know, my partner made that very clear. But as refs, it's not our concern is it? I mean, if there's an adult sitting there, we don't need to ask to see his credentials? I'm sure I've been told that it's not an issue for us.
I'd say that it is your concern. If your association makes this requirement clear to all of the member officials and then a situation arises for it to be adhered to you better darn well apply it. The real problem is that if you choose to continue a contest without at least asking whether the person taking over the team is certified, then you could face serious after the fact issues, if something bad happens. The question is going to be why did you permit this contest to continue?

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