The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 12:30am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 247
Send a message via AIM to Love2ref4Ever
Thumbs down

Here is a very interesting article, please read it and give your honest feedback.http://www.nj.com/hssports/ledger/index.ssf?/base/sports-0/1138258025221650.xml&coll=1
__________________
Welcome To The Wonderful World Of Basketball!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 08:45am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Just this side of crazy
Posts: 323
It seems a shame this would still be going on in this day and age.

Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 09:07am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,342
Quote:
Originally posted by stmaryrams
It seems a shame this would still be going on in this day and age.

Well, believe it! It would be interesting to hear what they have to say about it in the future.
__________________
truerookie
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 09:28am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 247
Send a message via AIM to Love2ref4Ever
Thumbs down

What also is a shame that those who know it's wrong regardless of the color of there skin, will not say anything!
__________________
Welcome To The Wonderful World Of Basketball!
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 10:34am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,614
I have no idea whether these officials are being treated unfairly or not, as we only hear one side in this very short article. But I do know that there are prejudices/bias in these types of situations across the entire country, that all officials face, not just minority races or women. And yes, minority races and women do face more of this in life. Everyone is not treated fairly.

But I also know they are officials, that no matter who long they officiate, never get any better and will never be able to work a varsity game. That includes all races and genders.

In our association, we work crews. Every varsity crew has either one white and two minorities or two minorities and one white, with the exception of two crews. Those two crews, one is all white, one is all black. On my crew that worked the state championship in football, there were three whites and two blacks, This year, our association president is black, the VP is Native American, the tresurer is white, and the secretary is black. Of the 11 board members, five are white and 6 are minorities. We go out of our way to make sure that everyone is represented

I said all that to say those. IMO, that's very balanced situation. Evenso, I know there are members who feel they aren't getting varsity games because of the color of their skin. There's always going to be those who think they are being mistreated. In fact, each of us feels that way from time to time. I don't have an answer to that, as I don't think there is an easy answer. But again, I also know that there are those officials who will never work a varsity game, nor should they.

JMHO
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 10:52am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 182
Very interesting and especially in New Jersey. I have always heard (NEVER WITNESSED) the opposite that officials of certain race and/or gender were advancing through because of their race and/or gender. It is a shame that this stuff still exists.

__________________
[B]Things turn out best for those that make the best out of the way things turn out - John Wooden[B]
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 10:56am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,342
Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
I have no idea whether these officials are being treated unfairly or not, as we only hear one side in this very short article. But I do know that there are prejudices/bias in these types of situations across the entire country, that all officials face, not just minority races or women. And yes, minority races and women do face more of this in life. Everyone is not treated fairly.

But I also know they are officials, that no matter who long they officiate, never get any better and will never be able to work a varsity game. That includes all races and genders.

In our association, we work crews. Every varsity crew has either one white and two minorities or two minorities and one white, with the exception of two crews. Those two crews, one is all white, one is all black. On my crew that worked the state championship in football, there were three whites and two blacks, This year, our association president is black, the VP is Native American, the tresurer is white, and the secretary is black. Of the 11 board members, five are white and 6 are minorities. We go out of our way to make sure that everyone is represented

I said all that to say those. IMO, that's very balanced situation. Evenso, I know there are members who feel they aren't getting varsity games because of the color of their skin. There's always going to be those who think they are being mistreated. In fact, each of us feels that way from time to time. I don't have an answer to that, as I don't think there is an easy answer. But again, I also know that there are those officials who will never work a varsity game, nor should they.

JMHO
BBR, It is good to know your association is doing a good job in making the diversity work within it. It truly shows an honest effort is being made. You are correct in stating there is two side to every story and that everyone is not able to work specific levels.
__________________
truerookie
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 12:26pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 29,581
Quote:
Originally posted by stmaryrams
It seems a shame this would still be going on in this day and age.

I know I am not surprised. I am more surprised that we do not see more situations like this taking place.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 12:29pm
Huck Finn
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 3,347
Similar to some comments by BBR, my first thought was to wonder how good these officials are. Being good, very good, can change a lot IMO.
While I commend any board, organization or group that makes sure different races are represented, we will not reach that "zen" level (or whatever ), until this whole subject isn't an issue - spoken, thought or otherwise. The organizations who do something about this are doing MUCH better than people who aren't even concerned about it. BBR, what city do you live in?
__________________
"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are." -- John Wooden
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 12:49pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,614
Fayetteville, NC
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 12:49pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 29,581
Quote:
Originally posted by tomegun
Similar to some comments by BBR, my first thought was to wonder how good these officials are. Being good, very good, can change a lot IMO.
While I commend any board, organization or group that makes sure different races are represented, we will not reach that "zen" level (or whatever ), until this whole subject isn't an issue - spoken, thought or otherwise. The organizations who do something about this are doing MUCH better than people who aren't even concerned about it. BBR, what city do you live in?
I agree that the ability level of these officials does matter. The problem is that if they are just as good as other officials and they still are sitting out, that is still wrong. If the story is correct one of the officials has coaches wondering why he is not getting games. I realize coaches are not the main judge of officials, but I think coaches know who works hard and who is on a similar level as other officials that they see all the time.

This might be an extreme case, but in my area we have to be better, work longer and prove more to get a simple opportunity to work in many conferences. Someone that is not Black/Hispanic can get there friend to bring them along and no one says anything. Times have really not completely changed.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 02:21pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 96
Even though I know I should resist I can't

JRut ,
You say some strange things so I just want to make sure I understand what you just wrote correctly .
1) Are you saying (In so many words)that the people that assign the "many conferences" in your area will not hire someone unless they are better / work harder and prove themselves first ??

or are you saying :

2) The people that assign the "many conferences" are all racist and will not hire a black /hispanic unless they have no choice .

If you were trying to say the former then I say congratulations to the assignors for wanting to hire officials that are better, have worked longer and proved themselves .
If you are trying to say the latter then you are really really making a strong statement by essentially calling all the assignors in those "many conferences" racist . That is quite a statement for one to make .
I will not even dignify the whole white people (Sorry someone who is not Black /hispanic) can bring a friend and nobody cares at all comment because that is just ignorant......oh yeah I forgot I am not from your area so what would I know .
Your area must be a real interesting place .
Sorry for the venom in this response but I just found your comments really insulting..... and I still can't figure out why .
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 03:04pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Boston area
Posts: 615
I totally believe Rut's experiencee -- that in his area blacks and Hispanics have to be "better" in order to get varsity games.

That being said, I assure you that being a white male in many conferences in my area is no guarantee of getting varsity games -- no matter how hard you work. And the reasons are identical to what Rut cited -- if you do not have connections, you are not getting "promoted." The "old boy network" here is truly color blind (in my experience), but if you have no connections, you had better be a LOT better and work a LOT harder and be willing to travel a LOT farther if you want varsity games.

I recently was introduced to a second-year offical who had a full varstiy schedule. It turns out he is the son of a high school AD and the assignor made sure to take good care of the son. I also worked a varisty game this week with a second-year official. It was no coincidence that she got the game. She is still learning (and she is the first to admit it), but there is a big push to get women to officiate girl's games. An inexperienced woman will get a girls's varsity game much faster than an experienced man who is trying to break into varsity.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 03:11pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 276
WeekendRef, I certainly won't speak for Mr. Rutledge (he will no doubt answer you), but I think it was pretty clear that what he was saying is that it is his observation and opinion that, at least in his area, Black officials have to "be better, work longer and prove more" than is also true for White officials. Based on what he has said at other times, I think you will get no argument from him that he would support high standards (the good games should go to the better, harder/longer working, more proven officials). He would object -- and so would I and a lot of other people -- when that high standard is only applied to certain officials rather than all officials.

In my area, I know of lousy officials who are Black who complain about not getting more and better games and they attribute the problem to race/racism. Also in my area I know of lousy officials who are White who complain about not getting more and better games and they attribute the problem to politics/being buddies with the right people. Unfortunately, those officials spend too much wasted time and energy on complaining and not enough on improving. However, it *is* true that issues like race and politics influence - sometimes with subtlety, sometimes overtly - human beings' decisions. Each of us needs to be aware of it and to do our best to treat people fairly and as much as possible based on performance.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 27, 2006, 03:19pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,614
Quote:
Originally posted by bgtg19
In my area, I know of lousy officials who are Black who complain about not getting more and better games and they attribute the problem to race/racism. Also in my area I know of lousy officials who are White who complain about not getting more and better games and they attribute the problem to politics/being buddies with the right people. Unfortunately, those officials spend too much wasted time and energy on complaining and not enough on improving.
Totally agree. People find excuses, in many cases, for not being promoted. Notice I did not say all cases but there are definitely plenty that couldn't work a grade school game that think they should be working varsity.
__________________
"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott

"You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:55pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1