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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 02:28pm
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I took my daughters AAU U11 team (I am also the coach) to the ladies Mich St. - Ohio State game this past weekend in E Lansing. Great game, right down to the wire. Well officiated. Situation occurred, want your input. Ball tipped OOB under A1s basket, right in front of lead official. Lead official signals A ball. C official runs into the play, whistle blaring, signaling other direction. C then conferenced with L, ball goes to B. My question is: I was told by my association to NEVER overturn an OOB call unless you can catch the eye of the calling official and get the point across that they might have missed something. The reason: not to discredit or embarrass the ref or officiating crew. This college crew did it just the opposite. What is most appropriate for HS games?
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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 03:00pm
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Getting it right is the most appropriate. Where was the ball tipped? Did the C have a better look? There is nothing wrong with getting together in this situation to make sure you get it right. Obviously you don't want to do this all the time, but I see no reason not go get together and get it right.
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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 03:24pm
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I've always been taught to quickly come to the calling official and give them my information - for example, "I saw A tip the ball out by the free throw line." It then gives the calling official a chance to change their call, or, perhaps leave it because they had another tip right before it went out that perhaps you didn't see. I will come in only if I'm 110% sure (sorry Chuck ), and I will not ask them if perhaps they saw the possible tip by someone they maybe did or didn't see because perhaps they were straight-lined or did they blink or...oh, never mind - you know what I mean; just give them your information. But from the way you described it, I'm not sure I would handle it that way. I have always been taught in both HS and college to bring you information to the calling official, then let them keep or change the call.
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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 03:26pm
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There is no reason not to "get it right" as the previous post said, but there certainly are reasons why the C should not have gone running in there with whistle blaring and pointing the other way. That makes the entire crew look like sh!t...if you've got info, go in and give that info - no whistle, no pointing, just "Partner, wait" and go talk with him/her...let the partner decide if they want to change the call or not...
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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 03:29pm
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I agree with Rock, you don't want to go running in signalling the other way. Thanks for adding that detail, great advice.
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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 03:32pm
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Hey, rocky, how come I rambled on and still got my reply in quicker than your more condensed version?

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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 03:40pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by M&M Guy
Hey, rocky, how come I rambled on and still got my reply in quicker than your more condensed version?

My 5th period 7th grade math kids kept needing help with question #12...
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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 03:46pm
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Talking

I'm glad I'm not the only teacher who jumps in and posts while their students are working. You can tell how much homework I'm giving by the number of times I'm able to post.
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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 04:02pm
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MSU/OSU

Imeadski:

Hey, I was at that game too and didn't pay much attention to that call you stated. However, another one I was curious about was when Lindsay Bowen (MSU) tipped a ball towards the sideline and it hit the Trail who was IN-bounds (and the ball stayed inbounds, Bowen recovered it). She whistled the ball dead and gave it to OSU. I thought balls hitting the official are the status of our position, in-bounds or out of bounds. She was inbounds and I thought it should have been no whistle/play on. Am I wrong? McCallie (MSU Coach) sure reacted negatively.

On another play, the guy ref was Trail when the Lead switched to the other side, C went to Trail on her side but the guy stayed Trail too for 5-6 seconds and they were both WAY out. Seemed like he was not even paying attention.

Totally off subject but did you catch the halftime show with the "Firecrackers", the middle school jump rope team from Cincinatti? Unbelievable! They were worth the price of admission alone and earned a well-deserved standing ovation! What a treat!
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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 04:16pm
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Re: MSU/OSU

Quote:
Originally posted by Rizzo21
Imeadski:

Hey, I was at that game too and didn't pay much attention to that call you stated. However, another one I was curious about was when Lindsay Bowen (MSU) tipped a ball towards the sideline and it hit the Trail who was IN-bounds (and the ball stayed inbounds, Bowen recovered it). She whistled the ball dead and gave it to OSU. I thought balls hitting the official are the status of our position, in-bounds or out of bounds. She was inbounds and I thought it should have been no whistle/play on. Am I wrong? McCallie (MSU Coach) sure reacted negatively.

On another play, the guy ref was Trail when the Lead switched to the other side, C went to Trail on her side but the guy stayed Trail too for 5-6 seconds and they were both WAY out. Seemed like he was not even paying attention.

Totally off subject but did you catch the halftime show with the "Firecrackers", the middle school jump rope team from Cincinatti? Unbelievable! They were worth the price of admission alone and earned a well-deserved standing ovation! What a treat!
I did see the OOB play in question. Yes, it did hit her, and, she immediately made a call for a possession change. I was stunned! My understanding of the rules is that the ball should have still been in play. The folks I was with all turned and asked me if that was the right call (I just smiled). I did not see the other play you speak of. However, it was the guy who made the call that the one female official overturned.

The firecrackers were worth the price of admission. My team was VERY impressed, as was I. One of the girls on my team is Liz Shimek's cousin. Liz grew up in our little, humble area. She's turned into quite the player.

What I am really wondering is why Coach McCallie didnt call a timeout in either of the times MSU had possession in the last 19 seconds. The play that ended the game was a real SNAFU by MSU.
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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 05:57pm
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It wasn't your group in the Orange and White down near the court was it? You would have been REAL close to the call I had a question about. I think we are correct, she simply blew the call...Joanne P knew it too.

I still work at the 2-man level but from the three-man scrimmages I've worked and been "observed" at, two Trails is a big no-no!

Overall, the officials did a decent job. Even when they called foul on the MSU shot with three seconds, I didn't see the OSU coach protest much.

I've never seen a show so original and crowd pleasing as those jump-ropers. Apparently they did the half-time at the men's game the day before as well. They were a bargain no matter what our athletic department paid them.

Very poor execution on the last play and eating a timeout like that was very strange. Oh well, it's easy to second guess now but Joanne P has had great success, I won't argue too much. Davenport just "went off" and carried OSU.

Liz is a phenomenal person and player. If I had half the work ethic she had, I'd be a millionaire. I, too grew up in a humble little area up north, same latitude, different side of the state. I e-mailed Liz last year and congratulated her and shared my up-north experience. We used to have some royal battles with the MCGL men's team and now the LeeLeenau peninsula is our favorite place to vacation in Mich. She wrote a nice note back.

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Old Mon Jan 23, 2006, 06:02pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Junker
I agree with Rock, you don't want to go running in signalling the other way. Thanks for adding that detail, great advice.
If my partner is 100% sure that I missed a tip and there was no subsequent tip, I want him to blow the whistle and step in and let me know. If it involves pointing the other way, that's OK, because if he comes in, there's NO CHANCE I'm not changing the call.
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Old Tue Jan 24, 2006, 01:41pm
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You need to work this out in pre-game. If the official goes in to the other one, the call MUST be changed, and the original calling official is the one changing it. Thus, as the one going in, you better be 120% sure of what you have.
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Old Tue Jan 24, 2006, 01:45pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rizzo21
It wasn't your group in the Orange and White down near the court was it? You would have been REAL close to the call I had a question about. I think we are correct, she simply blew the call...Joanne P knew it too.

I still work at the 2-man level but from the three-man scrimmages I've worked and been "observed" at, two Trails is a big no-no!

Overall, the officials did a decent job. Even when they called foul on the MSU shot with three seconds, I didn't see the OSU coach protest much.

I've never seen a show so original and crowd pleasing as those jump-ropers. Apparently they did the half-time at the men's game the day before as well. They were a bargain no matter what our athletic department paid them.

Very poor execution on the last play and eating a timeout like that was very strange. Oh well, it's easy to second guess now but Joanne P has had great success, I won't argue too much. Davenport just "went off" and carried OSU.

Liz is a phenomenal person and player. If I had half the work ethic she had, I'd be a millionaire. I, too grew up in a humble little area up north, same latitude, different side of the state. I e-mailed Liz last year and congratulated her and shared my up-north experience. We used to have some royal battles with the MCGL men's team and now the LeeLeenau peninsula is our favorite place to vacation in Mich. She wrote a nice note back.

I understand Liz is a great person. Very humble, hard worker, never lost her roots. She has had a great career. I am originally from the Saginaw area. Now live in Traverse City and ref most of NW lower Michigan. Great towns, great kids, great atmosphere. Life is good!
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