After quarter T

[Snake~eyes]

After the horn ending the first quarter B1 slams the ball down in anger and the ball goes above his head. Official calls a T. What is the enforcement? Who is the foul charged to? And how do you administer this?

[BktBallRef]

Direct T on B1.
Indirect on B head coach.
Start the 3rd qtr. with the T.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Direct T on B1.
Indirect on B head coach.
Start the 3rd qtr. with the T.

Exactly what I thought - where does it say B1 is bench personel between quarters?

[refTN]

I don't think it is an indirect on the coach. If so, can I get a rule book or casebook play.

[blindzebra]

10.4.1 SITUATION B: At halftime, as the teams, coaches, and officials are making their way through a hallway to the dressing room, a Team A member verbally abuses one of the officials. RULING: A technical foul is charged to the team member and is also charged indirectly to the head coach. During intermission all team members are bench personnel and are penalized accordingly. If the conduct is flagrant, the team member shall be disqualified.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Snake-eyes

After the horn ending the first quarter B1 slams the ball down in anger and the ball goes above his head

Yep. Although, why wait until after halftime to administer the penalty?

[lukealex]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Originally posted by Snake-eyes

Yep. Although, why wait until after halftime to administer the penalty?

Personally, I would administer the penalty before the second quarter starts, but that is just me.

[Jayzer]

I agree with L.A. to give the "T" now but not an "I" to the coach.

[Edited by jayzer on Jan 6th, 2006 at 01:06 PM]

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Jayzer
I agree with L.A. to start the 2nd Puarter with the "T" but not a indirect to the "C".

There'a a rules citation posted above that says it is an indirect "T" on the coach. Do have a rules citation that will negate that rules citation? Or are you just saying the case book is wrong and you are right? The period between the first and second quarters is also an intermission btw.



[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jan 6th, 2006 at 01:11 PM]

[Jayzer]

I stand corrected. SORRY.

[Snake~eyes]

What about during pregame? I cannot find any rules which state the "players" warming up are bench personnel. Can anyone help?

[Texas Aggie]

The case play cited applies to the hallway during a time where the teams are CLEARLY off the court. The original question said "horn ending first quarter," so the case play isn't (excuse the legal jargon) directly on point.

Whether the ball goes above his head is irrelevent, but I'm going to give a player T and not the coach. The intent of the rule the case play is referencing is that coaches are directly responsible for all bench personnel and that responsibility remains when they are or should be at or near the coach's side. That's a weird way of saying it, but I said it that way for visualization.

The definition of a "player" is one who is "legally on the court..." He is legally on the court at the end of a quarter. Since a "player" committed the infraction described, this falls under 10.3.7.

Now, if he goes back to the bench and does something like this, then the indirect is proper. But don't read too much into a case play and assume it applies in ALL remotely similar situations. I, for one, don't believe the case play referenced is similar, but even granting it is, it doesn't apply.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by lukealex

Personally, I would administer the penalty before the second quarter starts, but that is just me.

My bad. Thought he said first half, not first quarter. Doesn't change the ruling though.

Originally posted by Texas Aggie
The case play cited applies to the hallway during a time where the teams are CLEARLY off the court. The original question said "horn ending first quarter," so the case play isn't (excuse the legal jargon) directly on point.

Texas Aggie, if a player dunks in pregame, are you going to give the coach am indirect T?

If the player fouls out and you inform the coach, are you going to give the coach an indirect when you T the player and he's still standing in the FT lane?

You can't have both ways. Before the game and between periods, all team members are bench personnel. The case play clearly states, "During intermission all team members are bench personnel and are penalized accordingly." It doesn't say, During intermission when the teams are in the hallway, all team members are bench personnel and are penalized accordingly." 5-5-1 says, "Playing time for teams of high school age shall be four quarters of eight minutes each with intermissions of one minute after the first and third quarters, and 10 minutes between halves. "

Sorry but you're wrong.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Jan 7th, 2006 at 12:25 AM]

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes
What about during pregame? I cannot find any rules which state the "players" warming up are bench personnel. Can anyone help?

10.3.4 SITUATION C: Fifteen minutes before the game is scheduled to start, team member A1 dunks. Two minutes later A2 dunks. RULING: A1 and A2 are both charged with a technical foul. In addition, the head coach is charged indirectly with a technical foul for each act. The two fouls are team fouls for purpose of reaching the bonus. When dunking occurs during the pregame practice period the official notifies the team member and the head coach, but does not sound the whistle. If the game is played in a state which utilizes the optional coaching box, the coach should be informed that he/she has lost the privilege of using the coaching box for the entire game.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

10.3.4 SITUATION C: Fifteen minutes before the game is scheduled to start, team member A1 dunks. Two minutes later A2 dunks. RULING: A1 and A2 are both charged with a technical foul. In addition, the head coach is charged indirectly with a technical foul for each act. The two fouls are team fouls for purpose of reaching the bonus. When dunking occurs during the pregame practice period the official notifies the team member and the head coach, but does not sound the whistle. If the game is played in a state which utilizes the optional coaching box, the coach should be informed that he/she has lost the privilege of using the coaching box for the entire game.

That doesn't say that the "players" are bench personnel. What if a player does something else other than dunking that warrants a T? Just looking for rules support.