Confession: Toughest call....(4 Principles)

[Larks]

I have a new appreciation for block / charge as it relates to one of the 4 principles (Ref the D). Last week, I had what was possibly the toughest block / charge call I have ever had.

I was L, closed down table side. I pick up activity nr. the FT line extended. A1 is driving right down the lane line, right at me and being guarded by B1. A1 blows by B1 and leaps towards the goal. I open up and see B2 standing there like he'd been there all week. Bam, torso contact, huge crash. I immediately comeout Charge / Player Control. Huge call. 3:00 to go. A is making a run to get back in the game only down 4. All H E double tooth pic breaks loose.

Here's the rub...A's coach suggested B2 slid in AFTER A was airborne. Being 100% honest, I had no idea how long B2 was there because the distraction of the dribble drive right at me caused my vision to narrow. Here is how close this was: C said great call, charge all the way. T said he slid in, Block. No way T could have double whistled to possibly save my a$$, I was selling charge to whoever was buyin.

So I am telling a mentor about this play today and what did he say that hit me like a slap in the face: You have to ref the Defense.

It's so basic but there it is. Ref the D.

Ever notice that sometimes when you really feel like you have a handle on things, maybe have a little spring in your step and a play like this one will jump up and bite you?

Heck, I could have been right and it was a charge but having the time to reflect, I now dont know. If I get the tape, I guess I'll find out.

And thats why I have come in today Father.....now how many Our Fathers and Hail Mary's do I need to do again?

Actually, can I opt for the writing the 4 principles out 100x on the black board?

[zebraman]

Don't be too hard on yourself. A lot of B/C calls are so razor close. Sounds like you did just fine and since B2 was a secondary defender, that was your call.

But yes, reffing the defense is the key to getting the B/C correct. Also, a good habit for the lead on a drive is to back out from close-down to wide-angle. It's tougher to make the right B/C charge when it's right on top of you. You wouldn't have had to open up because you would have been watching the whole thing at a 45-degree angle.

No Hail Mary's necessary.

Z

[blindzebra]

If I'm getting the description correctly the drive started in trail's primary, so your focus should be on the "help" defender and not the "on ball" defender.

Sometimes reffing the defense means finding the right defender, sounds like you got the wrong one.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Larks
Ever notice that sometimes when you really feel like you have a handle on things, maybe have a little spring in your step and a play like this one will jump up and bite you?

Larks -- I've been here way more times than I can count. Not on B/C, but on alots of other things.

If it was just the coach that thought it was a bad call, I wouldn't worry much. The T saying so is another matter, but for the C to think it was a good call means it was probably close enough that you don't need to lay awake nights worrying about it.

Take your mentor's advice to the bank, and skip the Hail Marys. Write "Ref the Defense" 50 times in your reffing journal, and donate 5 games of community service (meaning 3rd graders). Then throw the willow wands (tools of self-flagellation) into the fire and curl up with a nicely laced eggnog, and your favorite sweetheart. Next time, you'll own that play!

[zebraman]

Originally posted by blindzebra


If I'm getting the description correctly the drive started in trail's primary, so your focus should be on the "help" defender and not the "on ball" defender.

Sometimes reffing the defense means finding the right defender, sounds like you got the wrong one.

Larks said that A1 beat B1 and the defender that took the charge was B2. Sounds like a secondary defender to me in which case it's fine for the lead to take it.

Z

[canuckrefguy]

Yowza....those are the really tough ones. Primary defender B/C calls are usually slam dunks - but those secondaries are where it gets really hairy.

I agree with the others - you made the call, it was your primary, you sold it. No point in beating yourself up. Could you have been wrong? Maybe by a micrometer (sorry for the metric). No biggie.

One thing, just from an educational standpoint (for me) - you mentioned you were in close-down when the play developed. Did you have time to back out wide? A wider vision would have made it easier to see B2. I had a situation once where I swore up and down the guy had position - until I saw the tape. My evaluator said I needed to be wider to be able to see the whole play start to finish, including the defender sliding in. Not saying that's what happened here, but same principles apply.

Remember back in the summer when someone posted links to video clips - and there was that bang-bang B/C play that no one could agree on? This sounds like one of those.

Whew - hope you had a cold one after that - you earned it.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by zebraman

Larks said that A1 beat B1 and the defender that took the charge was B2. Sounds like a secondary defender to me in which case it's fine for the lead to take it.

Z

And from his description he picked up B2 late and was not sure if he was there before A1 went up, so he was not reffing his defender he picked up trail's defender and followed that to the "help" defender.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by blindzebra

And from his description he picked up B2 late and was not sure if he was there before A1 went up, so he was not reffing his defender he picked up trail's defender and followed that to the "help" defender.

This is great. You guys are saying the same thing and don't realize it!

There is more to "ref the defense" than people think. You have to know which defender you should be watching!

I agree with the above quotes that the Trail has A1 and B1 on this play. The Lead should be aware that they have entered his primary coverage area, but he should only help the Trail with calls on these two players. He should have his primary focus on the other players who were already in his area. One of those players was B2. When there is a collision between A1 and B2, the Lead is the primary official for this crash because he is the one who should have been watching B2's position for the whole play. He is the only one who will know for sure if B2 was in position before A1 left the floor. How could your Trail tell you that B2 slid in late, if he was focused on A1 and B1?

I have actually discussed this play in pregames. We talk about the secondary defender coming over to take a charge and who has responsibility for that.

[tomegun]

I smell a faint hint of ball watching! Just kidding (maybe).

I think Nevada has the mechanics of this situation down pat. You have to know who the defenders in your area are. Knowing who your matchups are, at all times, is crucial (and it can add to our credibility, but that is another subject.)

If you think the player took the contact in the torso, I wouldn't split hairs. I think the OP's call was correct.

If the T had such a strong opinion AND the play originated from his area, where was his whistle at? Hmmmmmmm.

Write down "ref the D" 1,000 times..... and then throw it out the window! REF THE MATCHUP! Reffing the matchup does not fit inside reffing the D, but reffing the D does fit inside reffing the matchup, along with other things that will be picked up. It might just be a different thought process for some, but others might literally put "ref the D" into action and miss other things.

[Rick82358]

Tomegun has it right - there was a little ball watching going on. - When you close down you need to move away from the base line to maintain that angle. If B2 was there to take the charge he should have been in that angle as the play came at you.
But if the T was that sure and the play came out of his primary where was his whistle.
The call was yours - sounds to me like you had the right call - you sold it don't beat yourself over it!
review the tape and if you were wrong learn from it. But do not let this make you gun shy in calling the charge the next time.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by tomegun

If you think the player took the contact in the torso, I wouldn't split hairs. I think the OP's call was correct.

What difference does "contact in the torso" have to do with the actual call on this play?

Answer: Absolutely nothing!

The call is solely dependant on whether the defender had a legal position before the shooter became airborne, and then maintained that legal position. If so, charge. If not, block.

"Contact in the torso" has got absolutely nothing to do with making the right call in this situation.

Btw, is "ref the match-up" the latest buzzword? Personally, I can't see how that differs from "ref the defense" at all.

[Rick82358]

Torso to torso contact is one of the things you look for to make a charging call. If the contact were to the torso to the defenders arms they were probably sticking out and not in the vertical plane so it would be a block (unless put up to absorb contact). If the contact were in the torso to legs of the defender I can't imagine that one. The principle is that for the contact to be straight on the contact has to be torso to torso to be a charge. That does include the shoulders of the offensive player.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

What difference does "contact in the torso" have to do with the actual call on this play?

Answer: Absolutely nothing!

The call is solely dependant on whether the defender had a legal position before the shooter became airborne, and then maintained that legal position. If so, charge. If not, block.

"Contact in the torso" has got absolutely nothing to do with making the right call in this situation.

Btw, is "ref the match-up" the latest buzzword? Personally, I can't see how that differs from "ref the defense" at all.

Contact in the torso does have something to do with this play. That is my opinion just like JR gave his. I'm editing this post after reading the next two posts. JR explained himself more, which I agree with, so I think an edit is called for. Taking the contact in the chest is not the only thing to look for but it is one thing to look for. For an airborne shooter, a sliding defender is even more important. However, these are often "bang bang" plays and - let's face it - the amount of contact often determines IF we blow the whistle (along with whether the players go down..etc, etc).

If you don't understand how ref the d and ref the matchup differ, that is a part of the game you are missing. It isn't a buzzword, it is something that happens probably millions of times a day during basketball season.

This isn't even something to argue about; just two opinions. YMMV

[Edited by tomegun on Dec 28th, 2005 at 08:21 AM]

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Rick82358
Torso to torso contact is one of the things you look for to make a charging call. If the contact were to the torso to the defenders arms they were probably sticking out and not in the vertical plane so it would be a block (unless put up to absorb contact). If the contact were in the torso to legs of the defender I can't imagine that one. The principle is that for the contact to be straight on the contact has to be torso to torso to be a charge. That does include the shoulders of the offensive player.

You missed JR's point. He isn't debating that torso-to-torso contact is one indicator of a charge. For two players who are running on the floor it is a very good one. However, JRs is stating that in this particular situation involving an airborne player, torso-to-torso does not mean very much. It certainly is not the definitive criterion for getting the call correct. What does matter is whether or not the defender was in his spot on the floor BEFORE the airborne player left his feet.

While torso-to-torso contact on this play would indicate that the defender probably was in proper position in time, it isn't conclusive. Tomegun merely told the OP not to worry too much about it, if the case was that the defender took it in the chest, since the OP wasn't sure that the player really was there prior to the opponent leaving his feet. If you aren't 100% sure then you need to use some clues, right?

For the record, the play in question could rightly be a blocking foul even though the defender takes the contact right square in the middle of his chest. How? He moved into that position AFTER the opponent jumped.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Rick82358
Torso to torso contact is one of the things you look for to make a charging call. If the contact were to the torso to the defenders arms they were probably sticking out and not in the vertical plane so it would be a block (unless put up to absorb contact). If the contact were in the torso to legs of the defender I can't imagine that one. The principle is that for the contact to be straight on the contact has to be torso to torso to be a charge. That does include the shoulders of the offensive player.

Exactly, torso-to-torso contact is only one of the things needed to know to make the correct call. That was exactly the point I was trying to make. Torso-to-torso contact is not the sole determining factor in the call- and it never has been.

You can have torso-to-torso contact and the block-or-charge call would still be dependant on whether the defender was there before the shooter left his feet, and also whether the defender was moving towards the airborne shooter when the torso-to-torso contact occurs.

My point is that you cannot make the correct call in this situation just by simply going with torso-to-torso contact, as Tom said. You have to split hairs. The correct call is determined by all of the relevant principles involved in block/charge, not just one principle only.