Confession: Toughest call....(4 Principles)

[Camron Rust]

next matchup...whatever. It's just a new phrasing of the same philosophies started by someone trying to make it seem like they've had some new insight that no one else has.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by blindzebra
Is matchup any clearer in reality?

Any philosophy based on descriptive terms or catch phrases run the risk of being taken literally.

Matchup just has a slightly wider "tunnel vision" than ref the defense, it does not mean when they take it literally and focus on those two players that they don't miss a lot going on around it.

I understand why you are saying this but what do you do on the court literally? You watch the matchup. Why not say what you are really doing?

Wouldn't it be better to have wider "tunnel vision?"

[tomegun]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
next matchup...whatever. It's just a new phrasing of the same philosophies started by someone trying to make it seem like they've had some new insight that no one else has.

Camron, do you really think that is why this other official told us this? When he said it, I didn't take it that way because in reality, we ref the matchup. Can we get past this notion of someone supposedly making a new phrase and look at this for what it is? What do we do on the court, ref the D or ref the matchup? Since we ref the matchup, why can't we say we ref the matchup? The only thing I thought about when I heard this was it makes sense. I still don't understand the reluctance.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by tomegun

Camron, do you really think that is why this other official told us this? When he said it, I didn't take it that way because in reality, we ref the matchup. Can we get past this notion of someone supposedly making a new phrase and look at this for what it is? What do we do on the court, ref the D or ref the matchup? Since we ref the matchup, why can't we say we ref the matchup? The only thing I thought about when I heard this was it makes sense. I still don't understand the reluctance.

Tom, what you call "reffing the match-up" is exactly the same principle that I was taught 40 years ago when it was called "see the whole play". We were taught to try and get a wide enough view to see not only what the ballhandler and primary defender were doing, but also how help-defenders and screeners could affect that play. That concept evolved through some other buzzwords into "ref the defense", which has now morphed into "ref the match-up".

Iow, same-old, same-old. As I said, they're just reinventing the wheel imo. There's nothing the matter with that either because the principle used is as sound and valid now as it was 40 years ago. It just ain't really anything new imo, is all.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Tom, what you call "reffing the match-up" is exactly the same principle that I was taught 40 years ago when it was called "see the whole play". We were taught to try and get a wide enough view to see not only what the ballhandler and primary defender were doing, but also how help-defenders and screeners could affect that play. That concept evolved through some other buzzwords into "ref the defense", which has now morphed into "ref the match-up".

Iow, same-old, same-old. As I said, they're just reinventing the wheel imo. There's nothing the matter with that either because the principle used is as sound and valid now as it was 40 years ago. It just ain't really anything new imo, is all.

I think the term you used 40 years ago is more complete than ref the defense. I think "see the whole play" is a better term than ref the defense.
It might be the same old thing to us but someone else could take ref the defense literally and miss other things. I'm just repeating something I was told, but as you can tell, if you want to call it "see the whole play" I'm not going to get all upset because I think it is a good term too. It isn't about whether the messenger is trying to big time (my words, not someone else's) me, it is about the game and officiating.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by tomegun

Camron, do you really think that is why this other official told us this? When he said it, I didn't take it that way because in reality, we ref the matchup. Can we get past this notion of someone supposedly making a new phrase and look at this for what it is? What do we do on the court, ref the D or ref the matchup? Since we ref the matchup, why can't we say we ref the matchup? The only thing I thought about when I heard this was it makes sense. I still don't understand the reluctance.

Perhaps not the person you heard it from but someone, somewhere, was trying to improve the wheel. While the content is certainly correct, it doesn't add any new thinking to the body of officiating...it's just rephrasing the same ideas.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by tomegun

I understand why you are saying this but what do you do on the court literally? You watch the matchup. Why not say what you are really doing?

Wouldn't it be better to have wider "tunnel vision?"

I watch through the match up.

There is no set term that fits what an official actually needs to do on the floor. It's more a string of things:

1. Find the defense...this means more than just an individual defender, it's the right defender for the play coming to or already in your primary.

2. Be aware of the ball...this includes the player, player control, and status of pivot foot.

3. See through the play/match up...the open look, no stack, plus...

4. Pick up players off ball through that open look, find the second match up/screening situation.

All that ties into proper positioning, staying open and getting a wide view, and using your peripheral vision.

Boil that down into a simple phrase and win a cookie.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by blindzebra
[/B]

I watch through the match up.

There is no set term that fits what an official actually needs to do on the floor. It's more a string of things:

1. Find the defense...this means more than just an individual defender, it's the right defender for the play coming to or already in your primary.

2. Be aware of the ball...this includes the player, player control, and status of pivot foot.

3. See through the play/match up...the open look, no stack, plus...

4. Pick up players off ball through that open look, find the second match up/screening situation.

All that ties into proper positioning, staying open and getting a wide view, and using your peripheral vision.

Boil that down into a simple phrase and win a cookie. [/B][/QUOTE]"See the whole play"

I hope my cookie ain't 40 years old too.

[tomegun]

"See the whole play" works for me as long as someone doesn't take that term the same as a singular play and a patient whistle. It is a better term than telling someone to "ref the D."

I will slightly disagree with one thing: If I'm on-ball, I will be aware of possible players that could set a pick. ************************************************** ************ I was going to say I wouldn't be aware of another matchup but when I thought about it, I will be aware of other matchups in my area.

I would like to point out that JR's argument about the term "ref the matchup" had more to do with re-inventing a term and less to do with a small chip on his shoulder. See the whole play, when used in the proper context, is the most complete term but ref the matchup is still a better term than ref the defense. Others have simply criticized someone (it wasn't me) for a term even though they can't admit that term gives a better description of what they actually do on the court than ref the d. To make a long story short, don't have a closed mind and grow up (not you JR, I can appreciate a good counterpoint with substance).

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by tomegun
I would like to point out that JR's argument about the term "ref the matchup" had more to do with re-inventing a term and less to do with a small chip on his shoulder.

[/B]

That was the only small chip on my shoulder, Tom. Whatever you end up labeling the mechanic, it is a very sound, helpful concept for any official. I'm glad to see it's still being taught properly.

Of course, that's just my opinion too- fwiw.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by tomegun
"See the whole play" works for me as long as someone doesn't take that term the same as a singular play and a patient whistle. It is a better term than telling someone to "ref the D."

I will slightly disagree with one thing: If I'm on-ball, I will be aware of possible players that could set a pick. ************************************************** ************ I was going to say I wouldn't be aware of another matchup but when I thought about it, I will be aware of other matchups in my area.

I would like to point out that JR's argument about the term "ref the matchup" had more to do with re-inventing a term and less to do with a small chip on his shoulder. See the whole play, when used in the proper context, is the most complete term but ref the matchup is still a better term than ref the defense. Others have simply criticized someone (it wasn't me) for a term even though they can't admit that term gives a better description of what they actually do on the court than ref the d. To make a long story short, don't have a closed mind and grow up (not you JR, I can appreciate a good counterpoint with substance).

I'm pretty sure you're referring to me.

I was not trying to deny that "ref the match up" is probably more complete than ref the D if you're trying to sum up all the actions on the court.

The thread was talking about block/charge. To determine block/charge, Ref the D is fully and completely adequate. If you know what the D did, you'll know who to call for a foul.

If you want to expand the context to cover more than contact then there are certainly better expressions..."see the whole play". Ref the matchup is ok but there are a lot more things going on than "the matchup".

No need to get childish in your arguments (i.e. "closed mind....grow up"). There was no need for much substance in my post since others had already expressed the relevant points.

[refTN]

Another couple of terms for you guys: "Trail Mentality" , "Big Picture Mentality" or "Panoramic View Concept".

By employing this I don't see a reason why the Trail could not have had a whistle on this Block/Charge play. Once A1 has beat B1, B1 is not the guy who is going to hurt you on this play, you are using your "Big Picture Mentality" and anticipating the play which in this case is the Block/Charge with B2 coming across to take the charge. All be it I believe this should be a delayed whistle giving way to the L but none the less there should have been a double whistle with the cadence being L then T, not a simultaneous whistle unless the L decides at the last second to call a foul.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by refTN
Another couple of terms for you guys: "Trail Mentality" , "Big Picture Mentality" or "Panoramic View Concept".

"Trail Mentality"? As opposed to the "Center Mentality" or the "Lead Mentality"? Is it hard to switch from a "Trail Mentality" mindset to a "Center Mentality" mindset and vice-versa every time the Lead comes across or goes back? What happens if you made a call using your "Trail Mentality" when you shoulda used your "Center Mentality"? Is that a correctible official's mistake?

"Panoramic View Concept"??

Giggle.......

That one could only come outa the.....wait for it.....SEC.

I can picture some frizzy-headed mad scientist sitting tucked away at a small desk in a converted closet someplace, feverishly working at coming up with new buzzwords to describe officiating concepts that have been around since Naismith was a pimply-faced teenager.

Lah me. Must be missing the "Big Picture" again.

Note- not making fun of you, RefTN. Making fun of the goobers who came up with those dandies.

[tomegun]

JR, those buzzwords may have originated from the SEC but they are used elswhere also.

Can you tell me what old term is the same as "trail mentality?" I'm curious about it. I always like to really learn about things like this (I had to throw that in so you would know my question is genuine).

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by tomegun
JR, those buzzwords may have originated from the SEC but they are used elswhere also.

Can you tell me what old term is the same as "trail mentality?" I'm curious about it. I always like to really learn about things like this (I had to throw that in so you would know my question is genuine).

Tom, I honestly don't have a clue whatinthehell "trail mentality" is. I'm not even sure that I really want to know, to be quite honest. Is it any different from "center mentality" or "lead mentality"? Is this the face of someone who cares?

I can't keep track of all of 'em anymore. Too many mad scientists- too few me's.

Whatever it is though, I'd bet Lark's left one that it ain't really a new concept at all. Also note that I ain't putting it down either- whatever the hell it is.

"I'm bilingual. I speak 2 languages- Murican and SEC."