Some General Questions

[IREFU2]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

2 right outa 5 also.

Thanks, your apple is on your desk teacher.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Team B would still be allowed to run the endline in this case, b/c it's after a made basket or awarded score. The common foul does not negate the ability to run the endline. (In college, even a non-common foul would not negate the ability to run the endline.)

I agree with all of Chuck's answers, but I'll point out that there's not enough information in question 2 to answer it definitively.

If A2's foul was near the end-line, then Chuck's answer is correct. If A2's foul was such that the throw-in would be on the sideline, then it's obviously a spot throw-in.

I agree that Chuck's answer is likely what the test maker intended.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by bob jenkins
If A2's foul was near the end-line, then Chuck's answer is correct. If A2's foul was such that the throw-in would be on the sideline, then it's obviously a spot throw-in.

Very good point! That could spawn a new rule: B gets to choose the spot or endline throw-in, as they see fit.

The throw-in official would ask the on-floor captain just like R's in football ask about penalty enforcement.

[ref18]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee

Very good point! That could spawn a new rule: B gets to choose the spot or endline throw-in, as they see fit.

The throw-in official would ask the on-floor captain just like R's in football ask about penalty enforcement.

There's no way in hell, I'm ever going to give options in a basketball game. Mostly because I don't have an ump to fall back on

[Kelvin green]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

I agree with all of Chuck's answers, but I'll point out that there's not enough information in question 2 to answer it definitively.

If A2's foul was near the end-line, then Chuck's answer is correct. If A2's foul was such that the throw-in would be on the sideline, then it's obviously a spot throw-in.

I agree that Chuck's answer is likely what the test maker intended.

??? Why do you say there is not enough information and that it would ever go to the sideline. The rule is clear that if there is a field goal scored on a foul that it is taken from the baseline and that the offended team can run the baseline. This prevents a team from fouling whie shot is in the air to force a spot throw-in (yes there are teams and coaches that smart). It does not make sense that a team scores and the other team is forced into a disadvantage because they cannot run. Chuck is 100 percent right that this is a baseline throw-in

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Kelvin green

??? Why do you say there is not enough information and that it would ever go to the sideline. The rule is clear that if there is a field goal scored on a foul that it is taken from the baseline and that the offended team can run the baseline. This prevents a team from fouling whie shot is in the air to force a spot throw-in (yes there are teams and coaches that smart). It does not make sense that a team scores and the other team is forced into a disadvantage because they cannot run. Chuck is 100 percent right that this is a baseline throw-in

Not really, Kelvin.

The new rule- R7-5-5- sez that "after a common foul prior to the bonus rule being in effect, as in 4-19-2, any player of the offended team shall make the throw-in from the designated out-of-bounds spot nearest the foul".

Iow, if the closest spot to the occurrance of the foul is on a sideline, it's a spot throw-in.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Nov 24th, 2005 at 10:55 AM]

[Kelvin green]

7-5-7 has not been superceded and neither has 7-5-3. I do not believe that the we should take away the privilige of running the endline. By not giving the endline it gives the offening team a distinct advantage. That's why they added that a few years ago.

My guess is once again the rules writers wrote something and screwed it up. If you read the comments on the rules 7-5-5 was added makes the penalty consistent for team control and player control fouls.. The comments specificall state that rule only applies when the team is in control, and that there is no team control during a throwin, jump ball, or when ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.

Based on the comments this does not apply to a scored field goal when there is a foul by a scoring team not in control of the ball

I will state that Chuck is right and I stand by that. Sorry

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Kelvin green
7-5-7 has not been superceded and neither has 7-5-3. I do not believe that the we should take away the privilige of running the endline. By not giving the endline it gives the offening team a distinct advantage. That's why they added that a few years ago.

R7-5-7 is applicable only for common fouls committed after a goal was scored and during the ensuing throw-in. You're trying to justify your answer with a rule that has absolutely nuthin' to do with a common foul that was committed before a basket was scored. They're completely different situations and different rules apply for each situation. If you were correct in your interpretation of R7-5-7 applying, then why would the FED put R7-5-5 in the rule book in the first place? There would be no need for it if it was already covered in another rule.

Sorry, I can't agree with you and Chuck either. I'll go with Bob Jenkins. I think that Chuck needs to contact his state IAABO interpreter on this one.

[Kelvin green]

Still disagree.

7-5-7 says that ball is awarded out of bounds after a goal or awarded goal as in 7-4-3 ( ball is awarded out of bounds after field goal or a suceesful FT or awarded goal.) Nothing about an ensuing throw-in.

Based on the comments on the new rule, 7-5-5 was written specifcally to addess team fouls and PC whn a team is in control...

I still believe the rules committe never intended to take away the run after a score. That is a privilige you get from the score. The committee would never allow an offending team to force a spot throw-in on a foul after a score since that's why the run end line provision was put inthere. Cases play 7.5.7E concure with the ruling.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Kelvin green
Still disagree.

7-5-7 says that ball is awarded out of bounds after a goal or awarded goal as in 7-4-3 ( ball is awarded out of bounds after field goal or a suceesful FT or awarded goal.) Nothing about an ensuing throw-in.

Based on the comments on the new rule, 7-5-5 was written specifcally to addess team fouls and PC whn a team is in control...

I still believe the rules committe never intended to take away the run after a score. That is a privilige you get from the score. The committee would never allow an offending team to force a spot throw-in on a foul after a score since that's why the run end line provision was put inthere. Cases play 7.5.7E concure with the ruling.

Still can't agree. Case book play 7.5.7E has the spot of the foul occuring on the bottom block. The closest OOB spot to where that foul occurred is the endline, and the ball then goes to the closest spot as per 7-5-5. That's the only reason that B is allowed to run the endline. If A2 hadda committed a foul in that case play at a spot closest to a sideline instead , that's where the spot throw-in woulda been as per 7-5-5.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Sorry, I can't agree with you and Chuck either. I'll go with Bob Jenkins. I think that Chuck needs to contact his state IAABO interpreter on this one.

What are we disagreeing about? Are you saying that in the following sequence:

1. try released
2. foul against the defense (not committed by airborne shooter)
3. ball enters basket

the throw-in after the basket is from a designated spot? I'm not exactly clear what I'm supposed to ask about.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

What are we disagreeing about? Are you saying that in the following sequence:

1. try released
2. foul against the defense (not committed by airborne shooter)
3. ball enters basket

the throw-in after the basket is from a designated spot? I'm not exactly clear what I'm supposed to ask about.

Ask about these 2 cases:

2a) The foul is near the baseline
2b) The foul is near mid-court

we all agree that in 2a, the ball is inbounded on the end-line, and Team B can run the endline.

In 2B, some would administer a spot throwin near mid-court, and some would administer a throwin on the endline with B being allowed to run.

[ChuckElias]

Ok. So JR's not really disagreeing with me after all, since I haven't really said anything about 2B. My initial answer assumed 2A, since that's what the test is probably (99.44%) asking. But I can ask about it.

For the record, I'd be inclined to side with JR. If the foul is committed near the midcourt line while the successful try is in the air, I think you'd go to the spot closest to the foul. Yes, you lose the advantage of running the endline, but you gain the advantage of advancing the ball 28'.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Ok. So JR's not really disagreeing with me after all, since I haven't really said anything about 2B. My initial answer assumed 2A, since that's what the test is probably (99.44%) asking.

Yup, I always did agree with your original answer. The question was a little vague but I think the answer you gave was the point that they were trying to get across. I was disagreeing with Kelvin that all throw-ins have to go on the endline, no matter where the foul occurred.