Some General Questions

[ref18]

1. B-1 Reaches through the plane of the boundary line and fouls thrower-in A-1. Official charges B-1 with an intentional personal foul and issues a warning to team B. Is the official correct?

2. While A-1's try is in flight, A-2 fouls B-2. The try is successful. Team B is not in the bonus. Official rules team B's throw-in is a designated spot throw-in. Is the official correct?

3. A-1's try hits the ring and bounces straight up in the imaginary cylinder above the ringt livel, when B-1 touches the basket. Official rules this basket interference. Is the official correct?

4. B-1, while playing the ball causes excessive contact. Official rules this an intentional personal foul. IS the official correct?

5. A double personal foul is charged while team A is in countrol. Official awards the ball to team A nearest the spot of the foul. Is the official correct?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by ref18
3. A-1's try hits the ring and bounces straight up in the imaginary cylinder above the ringt livel, when B-1 touches the basket. Official rules this basket interference. Is the official correct?

I'm not going to give you the answer, but I will tell you that this is THE most missed question on the IAABO exam every year. Gotta know your definitions.

As I said, I'm not going to give you the answers, b/c #1-#4 are pretty basic questions. Why don't you tell us your answers and why you chose them. Then we can tell you where you need to brush up.

5. A double personal foul is charged while team A is in countrol. Official awards the ball to team A nearest the spot of the foul. Is the official correct?

This one's not basic, b/c it's a rule change this year. Remember for double fouls you go to the POI. So you need to brush up on the definition of Point of Interruption. That will tell you who gets the ball and where. (This question is testing whether you know where the ball is put into play.)

[ref18]

My answers:

1. N
2. Y
3. N
4. N
5. N

[ChuckElias]

Ok, but how did you arrive at those answers? Any rules to back them up?

[ref18]

I'm away at college and I forgot my rulebooks back home. I'm just going by experience and what I remember. That's why I'm asking you guys, normally, I'd just look them up.

[ChuckElias]

You got 2 of the 5 right.

[ref18]

1. B-1 Reaches through the plane of the boundary line and fouls thrower-in A-1. Official charges B-1 with an intentional personal foul and issues a warning to team B. Is the official correct?

I say no, because I don't think you need to give a warning along with the Intentional.

2. While A-1's try is in flight, A-2 fouls B-2. The try is successful. Team B is not in the bonus. Official rules team B's throw-in is a designated spot throw-in. Is the official correct?

I can't remember whether B can run the endline or take the spot.

3. A-1's try hits the ring and bounces straight up in the imaginary cylinder above the ringt livel, when B-1 touches the basket. Official rules this basket interference. Is the official correct?

BI can only happen if the ring is touched when the ball is on the ring.

4. B-1, while playing the ball causes excessive contact. Official rules this an intentional personal foul. IS the official correct?

Excessive contact does not constitute an intentional foul.

5. A double personal foul is charged while team A is in countrol. Official awards the ball to team A nearest the spot of the foul. Is the official correct?

POI is wherever A had the ball, not where the foul occured.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by ref18
1. B-1 Reaches through the plane of the boundary line and fouls thrower-in A-1. Official charges B-1 with an intentional personal foul and issues a warning to team B. Is the official correct?

I say no, because I don't think you need to give a warning along with the Intentional.

You charge the intentional immediately, but you also issue the warning. That way, the next time somebody breaks the plane, it's a T and not simply the initial warning.

2. While A-1's try is in flight, A-2 fouls B-2. The try is successful. Team B is not in the bonus. Official rules team B's throw-in is a designated spot throw-in. Is the official correct?

I can't remember whether B can run the endline or take the spot.

Team B would still be allowed to run the endline in this case, b/c it's after a made basket or awarded score. The common foul does not negate the ability to run the endline. (In college, even a non-common foul would not negate the ability to run the endline.)

3. A-1's try hits the ring and bounces straight up in the imaginary cylinder above the ringt livel, when B-1 touches the basket. Official rules this basket interference. Is the official correct?

BI can only happen if the ring is touched when the ball is on the ring.

Well, it's not the only way BI can happen; but you're right that this particular case is not BI.

4. B-1, while playing the ball causes excessive contact. Official rules this an intentional personal foul. IS the official correct?

Excessive contact does not constitute an intentional foul.

Again, gotta know your definitions. It is an intentional foul if, while playing the ball, the defender causes excessive contact.

5. A double personal foul is charged while team A is in countrol. Official awards the ball to team A nearest the spot of the foul. Is the official correct?

POI is wherever A had the ball, not where the foul occured.

Correct!

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by ref18
1. B-1 Reaches through the plane of the boundary line and fouls thrower-in A-1. Official charges B-1 with an intentional personal foul and issues a warning to team B. Is the official correct?

2. While A-1's try is in flight, A-2 fouls B-2. The try is successful. Team B is not in the bonus. Official rules team B's throw-in is a designated spot throw-in. Is the official correct?

3. A-1's try hits the ring and bounces straight up in the imaginary cylinder above the ringt livel, when B-1 touches the basket. Official rules this basket interference. Is the official correct?

4. B-1, while playing the ball causes excessive contact. Official rules this an intentional personal foul. IS the official correct?

5. A double personal foul is charged while team A is in countrol. Official awards the ball to team A nearest the spot of the foul. Is the official correct?

Ok, I will give this a shot. LOL This shoudl be good.

1. I think it's dumb to charge both. In fact, as soon as the defender crosses the plane, the official should blow it dead for the warning. Then if there is contact, it has to be a T. So either penalize just the intentional personal, or not havethe possibility of an intentional personal. Since that is not true, you only penalize one. I say the official is wrong.

2. I say No. I believe the Fed wants to not take away B's chance to run the endline.

3. No BI. With the ball in the cylinder, you can't touch the ball. When the ball is touching the rim, you can't touch the ball, net, rim. or flange.

4. Yes.

5. By the strictest definition, the game was interrupted where A had the ball. Throw-in from there.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee

1. I think it's dumb to charge both. In fact, as soon as the defender crosses the plane, the official should blow it dead for the warning. Then if there is contact, it has to be a T. So either penalize just the intentional personal, or not havethe possibility of an intentional personal. Since that is not true, you only penalize one. I say the official is wrong.

The official is wrong. That is, the official JugglingReferee is wrong.

The correct answer is charge an intentional foul and report a DOG warning. Shoot 2 FTs and give the ball back to A at the spot.

BTW, your scenario is the same, you simply changed the sequence. You said, "as soon as the defender crosses the plane, the official should blow it dead for the warning. Then if there is contact, it has to be a T." The penalty phase is almost identical. Report the DOG warning, assess the T, have any player on A shoot the 2 FTs and give Team A the ball at the division line. IOW, your solution is no different than the NFHS ruling that you oppose.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
IOW, your solution is no different than the NFHS ruling that you oppose.

With the exceptions that one foul is a T and one is a personal foul. They usually have different impacts on the way that player plays.

If the official had a provision to blow the play dead as soon as the plane was broken, he might prevent continued action and prevent a foul.

In other words, my solution is different.

Edit: correct italic tag.

[Edited by JugglingReferee on Nov 21st, 2005 at 11:14 PM]

[assignmentmaker]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

The official is wrong. That is, the official JugglingReferee is wrong.

The correct answer is charge an intentional foul and report a DOG warning. Shoot 2 FTs and give the ball back to A at the spot.

BTW, your scenario is the same, you simply changed the sequence. You said, "as soon as the defender crosses the plane, the official should blow it dead for the warning. Then if there is contact, it has to be a T." The penalty phase is almost identical. Report the DOG warning, assess the T, have any player on A shoot the 2 FTs and give Team A the ball at the division line. IOW, your solution is no different than the NFHS ruling that you oppose.

It is different, is it not, in that in one case the throw-in will come from the division line opposite the table and in the other case from the spot of the foul?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee

With the exceptions that one foul is a T and one is a personal foul. They usually have different impacts on the way that player plays.

If the official had a provision to blow the play dead as soon as the plane was broken, he might prevent continued action and prevent a foul.

In other words, my solution is different.

Yup, your solution sure is different-- different than case book play 10.3.11SitC.

10.3.11SITUATION C:
Team A scores near the end of the fourth quarter and is trailing by one point. B1 has the ball and is moving along the end-line to make the throw-in. A2 steps out of bounds and fouls B1. Is the foul personal or technical?
RULING: This is an intentional personal foul. The time remaining to be played or whether Team A had previously been warned for violating the throw-in plane is not a factor. If the team had not been warned, the foul constitutes the warning.

Casebook play 9.2.11 covers the companion situation- knocking the ball out of the thrower's hand. The ruling is a technical foul and a delay warning.

[IREFU2]

Originally posted by ref18
1. B-1 Reaches through the plane of the boundary line and fouls thrower-in A-1. Official charges B-1 with an intentional personal foul and issues a warning to team B. Is the official correct?

2. While A-1's try is in flight, A-2 fouls B-2. The try is successful. Team B is not in the bonus. Official rules team B's throw-in is a designated spot throw-in. Is the official correct?

3. A-1's try hits the ring and bounces straight up in the imaginary cylinder above the ringt livel, when B-1 touches the basket. Official rules this basket interference. Is the official correct?

4. B-1, while playing the ball causes excessive contact. Official rules this an intentional personal foul. IS the official correct?


5. A double personal foul is charged while team A is in countrol. Official awards the ball to team A nearest the spot of the foul. Is the official correct?

My Answer also -

1-Y
2-Y
3-Y
4-N
5-N ball is placed at the POI.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by IREFU2

My Answer also -

1-Y
2-Y
3-Y
4-N
5-N ball is placed at the POI.

2 right outa 5 also.