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Old Thu Oct 27, 2005, 04:10pm
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Hello all,
I would like to throw this out and get your feed back.
This summer I was approached to work some Minor League Pro Games, you know ABA & Pro-AM. I though it was a good experience for me. I was thinking of working the leagues more going forward. So I go to my association meeting last week and start to hear talk of a very good Varsity official who has started officiating for the USBL. He has now been kind of black-balled. The assigner will not give him any games, on any level. They tell him “you go do that Pro stuff”. So I’m thinking what’s the big deal? Now I have come to find out there is a small faction (kind of under ground) of HS Officials that are working these Pro Leagues. They tell me if I decide to continue working on Pro league games I can not tell any of the other HS Officials or the same thing could happen to me. The thing I don’t understand is, I met several Division 2 & 3 college officials that are working the ABA & USBL and they do not have to hide it. So what is the hang up with the HS Officials?
What do you guys think?
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Old Thu Oct 27, 2005, 04:25pm
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Well, IMO I worked a HS game with a college official once and he told me during the pre-game that "we are going to officiate this like a college game. If they take it to the basket and get fouled (his exact words) and the basket doesn't fall then we have a foul. If the shot goes, then it isn't a foul."

I didn't agree and simply called the same game that I had been calling since I the beginning of the season.

I think that some of the collegiate/pro officials may do some things like this example which in turn makes their association black ball them or make them choose between one or the other. I am not classifying all officials that do college and HS like this as I know there are many of you that do both and I am sure that you all do good jobs. But, there is one for sure that I know of that wants to incorporate college mechanics/calls with HS mechanics/calls. They are two completely different games.
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Old Thu Oct 27, 2005, 04:38pm
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Jealousy could be one answer. Or, perhaps the association members have had bad experiences with pro league refs "looking down" on them. Or, maybe this ref has been black-balled for some other reason, and he's just blaming it on his working a pro league. Who knows?

I have found though, for whatever reason, it's hard to talk about your accomplishments to people who have not met those same accomplishments and levels. It's easy to talk about varsity games to other varsity refs, but once you become a "college ref", and you start talking about it in you HS association, the "career HS refs" do tend to resent it; some more than others. Maybe the jump from college to pro isn't as great, and those refs already understand the issues involved of moving up, so it's not as big a deal to them. I have been to many college camps where they touch on this issue a little; for example, you don't want to go back to your HS association and say, "Well, in my college camp they said to do this..."

I don't know if going underground is the right answer, but don't talk about higher level games to your HS partners, or at your HS meetings. If your HS assignor offers you a game when you have a higher level game assigned, just say you can't work that night, you already have a game. I don't think you have to deny anything or be dishonest, but just don't mention it so you don't come across as better than the others.
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Old Thu Oct 27, 2005, 04:46pm
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I think there is a really big misconception that college officials swallow their whistles. I have been to many college camps and I have never been told to not make calls. What is said a lot is to get plays right. I watch a lot of college ball and I see a lot of fouls called on made baskets. When I talk to officials at D1 levels, they talk more about getting plays right, they do not talk about not blowing the whistle. I had a long conversation with a D1 official last night and he was talking more about tape study and learning from other officials. He did not once talk about not making calls.

Peace
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Old Thu Oct 27, 2005, 04:48pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ThickSkin
Well, IMO I worked a HS game with a college official once and he told me during the pre-game that "we are going to officiate this like a college game. If they take it to the basket and get fouled (his exact words) and the basket doesn't fall then we have a foul. If the shot goes, then it isn't a foul."
This is one of my pet peeves. I have worked HS games where my partner wears his CCA jacket out on the floor, instead of his HS jacket. This tells me he's not ready to work this game, or somehow this game isn't as important as his college games. That's not fair to his partner(s) or the kids. It's the same thing when you walk into your grade school game and talk to your partner about that great HS rivalry game you've got this Fri. night. You're just showing you're not ready for this game.

Sure, when you move up, you want people to know; it's natural to want to brag a little. But most times it's best to just brag to the people who are on the same level as you to avoid any unwanted resentment.
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Old Thu Oct 27, 2005, 05:00pm
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The problem with the CCA Jackets is not that people are working college. I have known officials to wear the jackets when they do not even work any college ball. So it is not just college officials that wear the jackets during HS games, it is a lot of people who will never see a college floor.

Peace
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Old Thu Oct 27, 2005, 05:11pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
The problem with the CCA Jackets is not that people are working college. I have known officials to wear the jackets when they do not even work any college ball. So it is not just college officials that wear the jackets during HS games, it is a lot of people who will never see a college floor.

Peace
I understand; I think the same jacket is also available without the CCA logo. But, why would anyone want to wear a CCA jacket to a HS game?

In the couple of instances I've run across, the other official has been a college ref as well. In one case, the guy was trying during halftime to get me to sign up for his summer camp. Hmmm, what about going over what happened in this game?...
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Old Thu Oct 27, 2005, 05:28pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by M&M Guy


In the couple of instances I've run across, the other official has been a college ref as well. In one case, the guy was trying during halftime to get me to sign up for his summer camp. Hmmm, what about going over what happened in this game?...
I do not tell officials what to do. I am just not going to support those officials that do wear the CCA Jackets to opportunities. I might make a comment about it and I will leave it at that. I have spoken at camps and I scream at the top of my lungs these jackets are totally improper during HS games.

Peace
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Old Thu Oct 27, 2005, 05:41pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:
Originally posted by M&M Guy


In the couple of instances I've run across, the other official has been a college ref as well. In one case, the guy was trying during halftime to get me to sign up for his summer camp. Hmmm, what about going over what happened in this game?...
I do not tell officials what to do. I am just not going to support those officials that do wear the CCA Jackets to opportunities. I might make a comment about it and I will leave it at that. I have spoken at camps and I scream at the top of my lungs these jackets are totally improper during HS games.

Peace
I seemed to remember we were on the exact same page on this.

So that was you I heard in the distance this summer? I thought it was my wife yelling and wondering where the hell I was...
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Old Thu Oct 27, 2005, 06:07pm
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There's another issue here that has nothing to do with what jacket you wear or how you call the game.

If you have a college schedule you are not as available to your HS assignor. Some HS assignors do not like their people blocking out dates. Also, most officials who work both HS & college will usually not block HS dates with their college assignor. So the HS assignor has to understand he'll get turnbacks. Most won't accept this although some do. The way around this is to work HS games with an assignor who's happy to have college officials on their staff.
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Old Thu Oct 27, 2005, 09:59pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ThickSkin
Well, IMO I worked a HS game with a college official once and he told me during the pre-game that "we are going to officiate this like a college game. If they take it to the basket and get fouled (his exact words) and the basket doesn't fall then we have a foul. If the shot goes, then it isn't a foul."
That's funny, I had that same exact speech from a partner who also works D-1 games once. He said, "we aren't having any 'and-ones' tonight." I just looked at him and said, "we work the game that's in the gym we're in. Tonight it's a high school gym." He didn't argue, maybe because I am a higher rated official in our association than he is. The game went fine and he called it appropriately.

That being said, that is the only negative experience I can remember along those lines. I work many HS games with partners who also do college ball and 99% of the time they are great. They are generally talented enough to adjust their game to the level at which they are working.

Z
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Old Thu Oct 27, 2005, 10:21pm
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The first thing I was told going into my HS assosciation was not to talk about my college and NBA reffing experience, it will just get you shunned.

I do believe though that you ref differently at each level you work at. I would be less apt to have an and one in a pro game, when, even with the same amount of contact I would have an and one in a HS game. Players can play through so much more the higher up you get. I ref according to skill level. You won't ever see me bring my pro and college mechanics to a high school floor. I try very hard to seperate.
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Old Thu Oct 27, 2005, 10:48pm
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This is a great question. I like RefTN's answer. But the question is, Is it worth it to work the semi-pro? Will they give you a good enough schedule? Will you always have a schedule. In most cases the answer is no. So stick with the HS. But if you know you will get 30 games and the pay is worth it then go with the semi-pro. Weigh your options and go with your gut.
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Old Fri Oct 28, 2005, 12:23am
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Tim I agree with the scheduling issue. Good point. Now I pose the question, what if working HS ball is just a stepping stone in where you ultimately want to be?

In my eyes, I take the semi-pro games because it is better ball and a step closer to where I want to be. For others it might not be the case, it might just mean, extra money and something more prestigious they can brag about, but to me it is that much closer to making it to the big dance. I could care less if the money is great or horrible, or if it would cause me to have less games. There are always games out there that need to be reffed, just some more prominent than others.
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Old Fri Oct 28, 2005, 07:00am
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Quote:
Originally posted by refTN
The first thing I was told going into my HS assosciation was not to talk about my college and NBA reffing experience, it will just get you shunned.

Congratulations.

College and NBA reffing experience, eh?

And all that since July 20th of this year?

Amazing!

http://www.officialforum.com/showthr...6+pagenumber=4

According to that thread, as admitted by yourself on July 20th., your total basketball officiating experience was 65 middle school games, no high school varsity games, one college camp and no actual college league games, and some AAU and summer rec league games. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Just wondering -what exactly comprises your "college and NBA reffing experience" since then? What semi-pro league are you working in now?

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