What's the big deal ?!

[IREFU2]

I think the bottom line here is that HS Assigner dont want officials mixing the two leagues. We have been told not to use college mechanics and/or rules because this is HS. HS Assigner dont like officials closing out dates or turning in schedules due to officials college schedules because the assigner know that the more college games an official get, the less HS games he will do. I am currently doing a lot of college scrimmages and have been to several college camps thinking it may help me get my high school schedule a little better, but in fact once the HS assigner knows you are "attempting" to persue a colleged officiating career, it can black ball you on the HS level. So what I do, it when I am doing HS, that what I focus on and dont even bring up any college stuff and stick to Federation Mechanics and rules.

[jritchie]

there are 4 of us that call college games and we are welcomed with open arms. We are all in the top 5 in our association and are asked to help with all the illustrations on the floor for rotations and such!! They know we are the ones that usually go to the camps and get the new knowledge and are up on all the new rules, so they don't shun us at all, they pick our brain about things and actually use us to talk through many different situations!! They ask us for our scratch dates and we go from there, the only problem is that the ones that don't get a lot of high school games want to do a lot of gradeschool (which pays $80 for 2 games) but those guys are expected to turn in that gradeschool game if the high school assignor calls and asks them to do a game for him!! They say "what about the college guys, you don't make them turn in their college games", but there are not many of them, so it's not that bad, but you always have people like that! Just ignore them and go on...

[Ref-X]

Originally posted by Tim Roden
This is a great question. I like RefTN's answer. But the question is, Is it worth it to work the semi-pro? Will they give you a good enough schedule? Will you always have a schedule. In most cases the answer is no. So stick with the HS. But if you know you will get 30 games and the pay is worth it then go with the semi-pro. Weigh your options and go with your gut.

When I first got in to Officiating I never thought about ever working pro. My thinking was working my way through HS ranks and then take it to the next level, college. But after working with and talking to these officials that do work Pro. I started thinking this could be another avenue to take in my growth as an official. I do know that when I started out as a cadet our instructors made a big point of telling us not to watch NBA Officiating. That is not real Officiating but just entertainment. But I found out for my self this summer that these Pro Officials approach there job just as professionally and in many cases more so then your average HS official. The way they study the game and there understanding of the play that are being run is far greater then anything my association has tried to teach us. And there is less politics involved. Now I am not saying that one is better then the other. But I would think that a Ref. that is trying to elevate his/her level of officiating would be welcomed not turned away.

Tim,
As far as being able to get a schedule. The ABA & USBL season runs about the same as the HS season. And a Ref can get a good schedule.
Many of the college Officials said they use these leagues to supplement there college schedules. The Pro-am is run in the summer, and there are not as many games but they will keep you working during that time period. The pay is ok too.

[refTN]

That's right jurassic, I went and reffed NBA players and college players in August

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by refTN
That's right jurassic, I went and reffed NBA players and college players in August

Well, I don't think that you would have to worry about ever getting shunned if you mentioned that at your hs association meeting. You might get laughed at, though, if you tried to claim that as actual "college and NBA reffing experience". Most people think of something like "college and NBA reffing experience" as doing actual league games at those levels, not the rec-league summer type of game. Jmo.

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by refTN
There are always games out there that need to be reffed, just some more prominent than others

Not to pile on refTN...but be careful with this type of philosophy.

The game you are doing that night...is the biggest game of the night for those players...and should be for you also.

Maybe you didn't mean it that way...if not, disregard.

[Kelvin green]

There is a stigma is some associations abou doing something out of the ordinary. Everybody thinks that the logical progression is rec, then HS, then college, if you want to do something outside that it does not fit the norm.

It has taken about 10 years in our association but we have convinced people that using NBA rules and reffing Pro-AM, ABA, WNBA, NBA is not a bad thing.

For me I the experiences I have had officiating the Pro-AM,Pro-AM nationals, a couple of NBA and WNBA scrimmages has made me a better HS official.

This is where a "HS" ref can ref great ball players. I wont get a schedule in the Mountain West this year but I have reffed some of their players. I doubt I will ever work a Final Four but have officiated several Final Four Players. I will never work an NBA final but have refereed 3 or 4 of the best players to have ever played the game.

You get to see plays and moves that most HS kids will never ever be able to pull off (especially where I live)

My advice use these experiences to the betterment of your game. If you use them to brag you will be shunned. Sometimes there are paradoxes and politics that play into officiating assignments.

I know of a couple of officials who was worked Pro-AM and the Pro-am Nationals (including the finals), and NBA scrimmages, who did a great job in these games but could not get a 1A girls varsity game.... Thats all int he past now but you have to learn the political game...

[refTN]

Originally posted by RookieDude

Not to pile on refTN...but be careful with this type of philosophy.

The game you are doing that night...is the biggest game of the night for those players...and should be for you also.

Maybe you didn't mean it that way...if not, disregard.

I didn't mean it that way RookieDude. I take every game that I do as the biggest game at that time. It did kinda sound like that though.

Jurassic, my bad, in order to gain experience doesn't mean working a good amount of games with pro and college players at any time. I need to be in the middle of Rupp Arena with a packed house and do that for about 10 years to even have gained experience.

If I was a betting man, I would bet you are that ref that baits coaches into getting T's. Almost every time you talk on here (or maybe it is just to me) and you get in a discussion (not an argument)you try to find a way to pick at that person. I have done a hell of alot of work since July 20th. I have no doubt in my HS and NBA knowledge, whether it be rules or judgement. You and I disagree alot and that's fine, just keep disagreeing with my positions and not attacking what I have and have not done. I am never going to post on here that I have done something when I have not, my ego is in check enough to know that there are guys on here who have done more higher level games and on a bigger stage than I have. I am not going to try and "one up" you or anybody else on the forum. You better bet I will challenge your position on plays though, just so I can learn and get all the possible perspectives.

I look forward to the next heated DISCUSSION we have and maybe we won't berate the skills that we do or do not have or the experience we do or do not have.

No disrespect. Just had to get that off my chest.

[SMEngmann]

I am lucky enough to belong to two associations that actually encourage officials to enhance their game and move up to the next level. I am not a college official, but those who are in my groups are there in large part due to the associations, groups that assign games in such a way to encourage their officials to reach potential and also to encourage officials to go to camps over the summer. The result: the collegiate officials we have are very loyal to the organization and continue to work games and help develop and mentor the next group of official.

I realize the human tendencies toward jealousy and such, but blackballing any official who has worked pro or college games at the HS level I think is a huge mistake. Why should anyone be punished for simply trying to get better? And I also don't get the hostility toward NBA officials from college and particularly HS guys. They are well ahead of everything that happens at the lower level in terms of mechanics, and my experience this summer at Coast to Coast has tremendously improved my ability as an official in the subsequent games that I have worked. At the HS level, particularly for us younger officials, we stand to benefit a ton from the knowledge and experience of college officials, and the experience of working higher level ball in the summer. To blackball people who simply want to improve as officials makes no sense to me.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by refTN

I didn't mean it that way RookieDude. I take every game that I do as the biggest game at that time. It did kinda sound like that though.

Jurassic, my bad, in order to gain experience doesn't mean working a good amount of games with pro and college players at any time. I need to be in the middle of Rupp Arena with a packed house and do that for about 10 years to even have gained experience.

If I was a betting man, I would bet you are that ref that baits coaches into getting T's. Almost every time you talk on here (or maybe it is just to me) and you get in a discussion (not an argument)you try to find a way to pick at that person. I have done a hell of alot of work since July 20th. I have no doubt in my HS and NBA knowledge, whether it be rules or judgement. You and I disagree alot and that's fine, just keep disagreeing with my positions and not attacking what I have and have not done. I am never going to post on here that I have done something when I have not, my ego is in check enough to know that there are guys on here who have done more higher level games and on a bigger stage than I have. I am not going to try and "one up" you or anybody else on the forum. You better bet I will challenge your position on plays though, just so I can learn and get all the possible perspectives.

I look forward to the next heated DISCUSSION we have and maybe we won't berate the skills that we do or do not have or the experience we do or do not have.

No disrespect. Just had to get that off my chest.

Sorry, RefTN, but you have already posted on here about doing things that you haven't done.

RefTN, you also don't have a clue what kind of official I am- or was. Don't assume anything about me, especially trying to say that I bait coaches or nonsense like that. Either take what I post on here as maybe having some value, or reject it as being completely useless. That's always your, or anybody else's choice.

It kinda bothers me if somebody on here tries to intimate that they are something that they obviously aren't. So far, you have tried to intimate that you're a member of the SEC staff, and that you've got "college and NBA reffing experience"- your words. You're telling people about taking your "semi-pro games". You're giving out advice about how to call contact differently in a pro game than in a high school game. Quite frankly, I find this completely amazing coming from a 19 year old college student who has never done a high school varsity game in his life, let alone an actual college or semi-pro game. Good players competing in a summer rec league setting is nothing like the competition found in an actual, structured meaningful regular-season game

I admire your dedication and the work that you are obviously willing to do to become a top level official. You obviously love what you're doing too. Lord knows we need good, young officials. Please don't try to pass yourself off as something that you haven't developed into yet though. It could end up retarding your development greatly rather than enhancing it. And, please don't be dismissive of high school officials either. There are some absolutely great officials out there doing that level that do not want the headaches or to put in the time and traveling that is involved with the so-called higher levels.

No disrespect to you either, believe it or not. Jmo, but your career might advance a helluva quicker if you did more listening and less pontificating.

Feel free to ignore me though. After all, I ain't in the.....wait for it.....SEC.

[zebraman]

Originally posted by SMEngmann
I am lucky enough to belong to two associations that actually encourage officials to enhance their game and move up to the next level. I am not a college official, but those who are in my groups are there in large part due to the associations, groups that assign games in such a way to encourage their officials to reach potential and also to encourage officials to go to camps over the summer. The result: the collegiate officials we have are very loyal to the organization and continue to work games and help develop and mentor the next group of official.

I realize the human tendencies toward jealousy and such, but blackballing any official who has worked pro or college games at the HS level I think is a huge mistake. Why should anyone be punished for simply trying to get better? And I also don't get the hostility toward NBA officials from college and particularly HS guys. They are well ahead of everything that happens at the lower level in terms of mechanics, and my experience this summer at Coast to Coast has tremendously improved my ability as an official in the subsequent games that I have worked. At the HS level, particularly for us younger officials, we stand to benefit a ton from the knowledge and experience of college officials, and the experience of working higher level ball in the summer. To blackball people who simply want to improve as officials makes no sense to me.

Our association is very supportive of anyone who has something other than HS basketball in their lives. Whether it's working a college schedule or whatever, our assignor totally works with people's availability to get everyone as many games as possible. As I said, 99% of those who work high levels are a great credit to our association and great mentors to the less experienced officials.

Of course, we also have a couple of buttonheads at that level who try to give a bad name to the rest of them by being stupid. One of our D-1 officials was working with one of our excellent high school officials (who happens to be rated higher than this college official) and the college official pulls a check out of his wallet and says, "wanna see what a D-1 check looks like" and shows him a game check for almost a thousand dollars. What a doinkus.

Z

[refTN]

[/B][/QUOTE]Sorry, RefTN, but you have already posted on here about doing things that you haven't done.

RefTN, you also don't have a clue what kind of official I am- or was. Don't assume anything about me, especially trying to say that I bait coaches or nonsense like that. Either take what I post on here as maybe having some value, or reject it as being completely useless. That's always your, or anybody else's choice.

It kinda bothers me if somebody on here tries to intimate that they are something that they obviously aren't. So far, you have tried to intimate that you're a member of the SEC staff, and that you've got "college and NBA reffing experience"- your words. You're telling people about taking your "semi-pro games". You're giving out advice about how to call contact differently in a pro game than in a high school game. Quite frankly, I find this completely amazing coming from a 19 year old college student who has never done a high school varsity game in his life, let alone an actual college or semi-pro game. Good players competing in a summer rec league setting is nothing like the competition found in an actual, structured meaningful regular-season game

I admire your dedication and the work that you are obviously willing to do to become a top level official. You obviously love what you're doing too. Lord knows we need good, young officials. Please don't try to pass yourself off as something that you haven't developed into yet though. It could end up retarding your development greatly rather than enhancing it. And, please don't be dismissive of high school officials either. There are some absolutely great officials out there doing that level that do not want the headaches or to put in the time and traveling that is involved with the so-called higher levels.

No disrespect to you either, believe it or not. Jmo, but your career might advance a helluva quicker if you did more listening and less pontificating.

Feel free to ignore me though. After all, I ain't in the.....wait for it.....SEC. [/B][/QUOTE]

I Never said that I was part of the SEC staff, I said I was in the SEC development program, that is alot different than being on the SEC staff. I also guess it would be better to say I have reffed NBA and college players. I guess I don't have the term EXPERIENCE.

I said I would TAKE semi-pro games over HS games.

I didn't give advice about how to call contact differently between HS and and pro ball, I just said I call it differently.

And as far as trying to dismiss HS officials. If I have done that then I am sorry. I know there are people who have their lives set and just do HS games for the love of the game and don't care to do anything but, and I totally respect that. I have guys in my assosciation that I have become great friends with that are just like that. It is just that right out of the gate of my officiating career I was thrown towards college and NBA officials, so I yet to see the side and total understanding of alot of HS philosophy and thought process.

Much love. You said was reffing. Have you retired?

[Dan_ref]

Gotta give you one thing refTN, you aint having any problem deaing with that crusty old b@stard JR - you are taking whatever he gives ya and hanging in there.

Pretty impressive, eh Nate?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by refTN
[/B]

Much love. You said was reffing. Have you retired? [/B][/QUOTE]I'm retired on-court until Santa brings me 2 new knees. They're on the way. After they're installed, and if everything goes well, I hope to be able to do a few more football and basketball games before I hang my whistle up for good. If not, well, I've had a heckuva ride anyway for the last 46 years and I've enjoyed every minute of it. I'm in the twilight of a mediocre career anyway. The games that I'll take in basketball though, if I'm lucky enough to be able to come back, will be JV level and under only- to help train new officials. I'm a firm believer that older officials have to know when to step aside and let the younger officials do their thing. Meanwhile, I stay involved as our association's assignor, and I help out in other areas like training, evaluation, handling complaints, etc- and tonight.....whoopee...marking NFHS Part 1 exams.

Seriously, good luck in trying to attain your officiating goals. I started at 16 and reffed my way through college too. Please try to remember though that school really does come first. For most of us, officiating is an avocation, not a vocation.

[refTN]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Much love. You said was reffing. Have you retired? [/B]

I'm retired on-court until Santa brings me 2 new knees. They're on the way. After they're installed, and if everything goes well, I hope to be able to do a few more football and basketball games before I hang my whistle up for good. If not, well, I've had a heckuva ride anyway for the last 46 years and I've enjoyed every minute of it. I'm in the twilight of a mediocre career anyway. The games that I'll take in basketball though, if I'm lucky enough to be able to come back, will be JV level and under only- to help train new officials. I'm a firm believer that older officials have to know when to step aside and let the younger officials do their thing. Meanwhile, I stay involved as our association's assignor, and I help out in other areas like training, evaluation, handling complaints, etc- and tonight.....whoopee...marking NFHS Part 1 exams.

Seriously, good luck in trying to attain your officiating goals. I started at 16 and reffed my way through college too. Please try to remember though that school really does come first. For most of us, officiating is an avocation, not a vocation. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah I could have used that advice about school two months ago. Now because of me studying my rulebooks more than my math books I might lose my scholarship. It is just so hard for me to put school first.