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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 03, 2001, 10:51am
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I agree that this is one of those "you had to be there"
plays but if I judged that B1 fumbled the ball inbounds
and A1 is about to grab control then I'm blowing the
whistle, regardless of the level, maybe even if I started
my count. If there's no pressure then I'll let B1
step inbounds to retreive the ball for the throw-in.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 03, 2001, 11:05am
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If the ball is readily available to the inbounder, whether that player is OOB or not, it should then be considered at the disposal of the player, thus the 5-second count should start. This keeps a team from killing time off the clock at the end of a game, or from giving the inbounding team an advantage by being able to "read" the defense on a press, before actually beginning the inbounds.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 03, 2001, 11:11am
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My last response was in reference to WI REF's last line about not starting the count until the player is OOB. I do agree that in an obvious unintentional error, you blow it dead and start over, no matter what the level of play.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 03, 2001, 11:18am
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Angry

Dave; Thanks for clarifying that last line of mine. You are right about letting a team run the clock down near the end of the game. If they are delaying in getting out of bounds then I would be forced to start the five second count. But if it's just a casr where they are fumbling the ball around unintentioanlly, then I would let in run or blow the whistle if it took too long.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Thu May 03, 2001, 06:28pm
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when do you start your five second call?

WI Ref

I disagree when you say that you :"You can't start a five second count until the player is actually out of bounds! "

The five seconds starts when it is at the disposal of the team throwing the ball in, You may want to say that disposal begins when the ball is OOB and I would say that is incorrect also. If you wait until the ball is OOB you have just given the offense a big advantage. they can hold the ball or let it sit, wait for the offense to look at the press, set up and then pick the ball up go OOB and start the count. Now the 5 second call is more like 10 or 15. When the offense has it after the scored basket, or had a reasonable chance of picking it up, that's when the count begins.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 04, 2001, 08:26am
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What I was trying to say is; If the ball goes through the basket and is on the floor, I'm not going to start my five second count if B2 attempts to push the ball to B1 who is OOB, and is unsucessful. If B2 secures the ball and delays getting it to B1 then I would be forced to either start the count or blow the whistle and get the inbounds play started. I won't let a team have an advantage by delaying the inbounds play. I've been officiating the high school level for 13 plus years and have never had this happen to me. Now that it's been mentioned I had better keep my eyes open next season.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 04, 2001, 08:33am
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Quote:
Originally posted by WI REF
I've been officiating the high school level for 13 plus years and have never had this happen to me
Better find a big log to start tapping.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 04, 2001, 10:09am
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Question

Brian; I didn't understand what you meant by that?
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 04, 2001, 10:13am
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KNOCK ON WOOD?
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 04, 2001, 10:22am
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Quote:
Originally posted by WI REF


If B2 secures the ball and delays getting it to B1 then I would be forced to either start the count or blow the whistle and get the inbounds play started. I won't let a team have an advantage by delaying the inbounds play. I've been officiating the high school level for 13 plus years and have never had this happen to me. Now that it's been mentioned I had better keep my eyes open next season.

It is within the intent of the rules to start the count when the team has the ball in their possession. If the ball is mishandled, I would hope that you will continue to use your discretion to correct if needed. Sometimes the counts do seem to be a little fast with a few guys. I have seen kids pick up the ball, step out of bounds, and toss the ball to a teammate and get whistled immediately. That count is way too fast. Fortunately that is not the norm. 5 seconds is enough time if the count is correct.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 04, 2001, 10:34am
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Thumbs up

CoachB; I agree with you all the way. I would hope as an officail that I would have enough sense to not cause a turn over because of a situation like this. My goal is to keep the game moving and be fair to both teams on the court. There is apoint where you have to interpet the real meaning of the rule, not just enforce it.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 04, 2001, 10:59am
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Give Kelvin the lollypop.

The correct answer was "knock on wood".

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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 07, 2001, 10:09am
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First of all this is 16 yr. old AAU regional final. This is what we did. When the inbounder touched the ball, a whistle was blown immediately. The lead official then immediately signalled for all three of us to get together. In our little huddle we discussed everything that has been posted here. The consensus was that the ball was put at the inbounder's disposal when it was tapped by the teammmate. Therefore, since the inbounder had both feet out of bounds and the ball had been placed at the disposal of the inbounder, we had a violation on the inbounding team. We then called both coaches together and the referee gave this explanation to both coaches. The coach of the inbounding team obviously wasn't real happy but understood our rationale. He then asked what would have happened if an opponent had tapped the ball to the inbounder instead of a teammate. The referee thinking very quickly said he would blow his whistle and tell the players to leave the ball alone and administer the throw-in. We then gave the ball to the other team and plyed on. The inbounding team eventually went on to win.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 07, 2001, 12:17pm
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Walter-
I am trying to figure out where the violation on the inbounding team happened? If, as you say, you determined that the ball was at the inbounders disposal when his teammate tapped it to him, when it hit his hands and fumbled back in bounds to the opposing team, wouldn't that be considered the same as an inbound pass? I see no violation there, unless I am missing something on how or where the ball was fumbled.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 07, 2001, 12:36pm
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Dave; I'm having a real problem with the control issue here. If A2, who is inbounds taps the ball to A1 who is standing OOB. Does A1 really have control if the ball hits his hands and it's fumbled back in bounds? Also, does A2 have control on the tap towards A1? If this is the case, What about when you bounce the ball to the free throw shooter and he/she fumbles the catch? Is that not something that you blow your whistle on and re-do? ??????
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