The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 31, 2005, 07:42am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 1,342
I was watching the game last night between Seattle and Houston. The one thing I find interesting was on fouls the entire crew switched positon. At first, I thought I was seeing things until I look for it specifically and what I saw the first time was occuring. The one sequence I seen was(L called a foul; goes table side. Trail goes to C; C goes to L). I am interested to see if I was the only person seeing it.
__________________
truerookie
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 31, 2005, 07:45am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,373
Quote:
Originally posted by truerookie
I was watching the game last night between Seattle and Houston. The one thing I find interesting was on fouls the entire crew switched positon. At first, I thought I was seeing things until I look for it specifically and what I saw the first time was occuring. The one sequence I seen was(L called a foul; goes table side. Trail goes to C; C goes to L). I am interested to see if I was the only person seeing it.
1) The television ratings are low, but not so low that you were the only person seeing it.

2) The NBA has similar switches.

Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 31, 2005, 08:27am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Western Mass.
Posts: 9,104
Send a message via AIM to ChuckElias
Rook, in the NBA and presumably also in the WNBA, the switches are different from HS or NCAA. In the NBA, if you're staying the frontcourt, the calling official always becomes the Trail. No matter what position you were in, no matter where the ball will be inbounded or if FTs will be shot; if you call a foul and you're staying in the frontcourt, then you are the new Trail.

The other two official then also move to new positions. So if you're Trail and you call a foul, you stay at Trail and the L and C switch positions. If you're Lead and you call a foul table side, you go to Trail; the Trail goes opposite to C and the C becomes the new Lead.

If you're in the C and you call a foul, then you move to the Trail. The old Trail moves to the Lead and the old Lead moves to fill the C.

Nothing fancy, that's just how they do it.
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 31, 2005, 08:39am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 5,687
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Rook, in the NBA and presumably also in the WNBA, the switches are different from HS or NCAA.
Chuck, I guess I'm a little curious - do you know the reasoning behind why they switch this way? I was told that, for example in 2-person, that we switch after every foul just to get a different perspective; in other words we aren't looking at the same angles and plays for an extended period of time. Is that the same reasoning at the NBA/WNBA level as well? Or is there some other rationale?
__________________
M&M's - The Official Candy of the Department of Redundancy Department.

(Used with permission.)
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 31, 2005, 09:01am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Western Mass.
Posts: 9,104
Send a message via AIM to ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by M&M Guy
Chuck, I guess I'm a little curious - do you know the reasoning behind why they switch this way? I was told that, for example in 2-person, that we switch after every foul just to get a different perspective
Honestly, I don't know. But I would guess the reasoning is the same. Get the officials to see a defferent angle after each foul. After all, that's what happens in a 2-whistle game, right? All the officials switch positions. I guess the NBA uses the same philosophy in 3-whistle. All the officials switch.
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 31, 2005, 09:44am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 5,687
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by M&M Guy
Chuck, I guess I'm a little curious - do you know the reasoning behind why they switch this way? I was told that, for example in 2-person, that we switch after every foul just to get a different perspective
Honestly, I don't know. But I would guess the reasoning is the same. Get the officials to see a defferent angle after each foul. After all, that's what happens in a 2-whistle game, right? All the officials switch positions. I guess the NBA uses the same philosophy in 3-whistle. All the officials switch.
I think the reason they don't have everyone switch in 3-person in Fed. or NCAA is because they always want at least one set of eyes frozen on the players, to keep the extra-cirricular stuff to a minimum. I guess in the pro leagues everyone's more grown-up and mature, so dead ball stuff probably won't happen.
__________________
M&M's - The Official Candy of the Department of Redundancy Department.

(Used with permission.)
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 31, 2005, 02:38pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,557
Quote:
Originally posted by M&M Guy
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by M&M Guy
Chuck, I guess I'm a little curious - do you know the reasoning behind why they switch this way? I was told that, for example in 2-person, that we switch after every foul just to get a different perspective
Honestly, I don't know. But I would guess the reasoning is the same. Get the officials to see a defferent angle after each foul. After all, that's what happens in a 2-whistle game, right? All the officials switch positions. I guess the NBA uses the same philosophy in 3-whistle. All the officials switch.
I think the reason they don't have everyone switch in 3-person in Fed. or NCAA is because they always want at least one set of eyes frozen on the players, to keep the extra-cirricular stuff to a minimum. I guess in the pro leagues everyone's more grown-up and mature, so dead ball stuff probably won't happen.
Or maybe the NBA guys are so good that they can switch and keep eyes on the players.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 31, 2005, 03:26pm
If you need me, text me!
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ocean City, MD
Posts: 137
From Toliver's camp

We worked these mechanics (NBA/WNBA) at George Toliver's camp and I liked them a lot. Chuck has it right... George explains it as the calling official goes to Trail and the other 2 officials relocate. In relocating you may only move 3 feet from Trail to Center but you become a new position. The theory is just like 2 person, you are in a different position after each foul (unless you are trail and called the foul, then which you stay at trail).

For back court/change of direction fouls there is no relocation.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 31, 2005, 03:29pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Western Mass.
Posts: 9,104
Send a message via AIM to ChuckElias
Re: From Toliver's camp

Quote:
Originally posted by ocreferee
For back court/change of direction fouls there is no relocation.
Unless it's a loose ball foul and we're shooting FTs, right?
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 31, 2005, 03:39pm
If you need me, text me!
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ocean City, MD
Posts: 137
Smile Re: Re: From Toliver's camp

Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by ocreferee
For back court/change of direction fouls there is no relocation.
Unless it's a loose ball foul and we're shooting FTs, right?
True, on all shooting fouls the calling official is going to trail. Luckily at camp we played NFHS rules with NBA mechanics so no loose ball fouls to worry about.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 31, 2005, 03:55pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Western Mass.
Posts: 9,104
Send a message via AIM to ChuckElias
Re: Re: Re: From Toliver's camp

Quote:
Originally posted by ocreferee
Luckily at camp we played NFHS rules with NBA mechanics so no loose ball fouls to worry about.
I like the loose ball mechanic b/c it gives me two extra seconds to figure out which end of the court I need to point toward.
__________________
Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are relevant for men's games only!
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 31, 2005, 08:23pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,557
Re: From Toliver's camp

Quote:
Originally posted by ocreferee
We worked these mechanics (NBA/WNBA) at George Toliver's camp and I liked them a lot. Chuck has it right... George explains it as the calling official goes to Trail and the other 2 officials relocate. In relocating you may only move 3 feet from Trail to Center but you become a new position. The theory is just like 2 person, you are in a different position after each foul (unless you are trail and called the foul, then which you stay at trail).

For back court/change of direction fouls there is no relocation.
How'd you like Tolliver's? I was thinking about going next year. Please tell me more about the camp and your overall experience. Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 01, 2005, 07:12am
If you need me, text me!
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Ocean City, MD
Posts: 137
Re: Re: From Toliver's camp

Quote:
Originally posted by Snake~eyes

How'd you like Tolliver's? I was thinking about going next year. Please tell me more about the camp and your overall experience. Thanks
This year was my second trip (first was in '98) to Harrisonburg for George's camp. I truly enjoyed my time there. It is a fantastic teaching camp with NBA, NBDL, and NCAA officials as clinicians. They work extremely hard at ensuring everyone learns whether they are in their first year of officiating or working NBA summer league (we had officials at both these extremes at camp this year).

It is NOT a tryout camp. Although a few supervisors do attend for a day. This year Brenda Gelston (Colonial Women) and Luis Grillo (MEAC men) both made appearances at camp. I don't know if they picked anyone up but they did get a chance to see 40 officials, many of whom are young, quality officials. George is also now on the NBA/WNBA supervisory staff so I assume if he liked someone he could get you a shot in the NBA system (starting with the D League).

Other positives are that you stay in a hotel, eat great food (Subway lunches and a local restaurant for dinner). You usually work no more than 3 games in a day as well.

This year camp did not fill up but in the past it has been at capacity. You can get more information at http://www.toliverbasketball.com

Hope this helps! I am definitely trying to go back next year.

OCReferee
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:28am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1