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truerookie Wed Aug 31, 2005 07:42am

I was watching the game last night between Seattle and Houston. The one thing I find interesting was on fouls the entire crew switched positon. At first, I thought I was seeing things until I look for it specifically and what I saw the first time was occuring. The one sequence I seen was(L called a foul; goes table side. Trail goes to C; C goes to L). I am interested to see if I was the only person seeing it.

bob jenkins Wed Aug 31, 2005 07:45am

Quote:

Originally posted by truerookie
I was watching the game last night between Seattle and Houston. The one thing I find interesting was on fouls the entire crew switched positon. At first, I thought I was seeing things until I look for it specifically and what I saw the first time was occuring. The one sequence I seen was(L called a foul; goes table side. Trail goes to C; C goes to L). I am interested to see if I was the only person seeing it.
1) The television ratings are low, but not so low that you were the only person seeing it.

2) The NBA has similar switches.


ChuckElias Wed Aug 31, 2005 08:27am

Rook, in the NBA and presumably also in the WNBA, the switches are different from HS or NCAA. In the NBA, if you're staying the frontcourt, the calling official always becomes the Trail. No matter what position you were in, no matter where the ball will be inbounded or if FTs will be shot; if you call a foul and you're staying in the frontcourt, then you are the new Trail.

The other two official then also move to new positions. So if you're Trail and you call a foul, you stay at Trail and the L and C switch positions. If you're Lead and you call a foul table side, you go to Trail; the Trail goes opposite to C and the C becomes the new Lead.

If you're in the C and you call a foul, then you move to the Trail. The old Trail moves to the Lead and the old Lead moves to fill the C.

Nothing fancy, that's just how they do it.

M&M Guy Wed Aug 31, 2005 08:39am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Rook, in the NBA and presumably also in the WNBA, the switches are different from HS or NCAA.
Chuck, I guess I'm a little curious - do you know the reasoning behind why they switch this way? I was told that, for example in 2-person, that we switch after every foul just to get a different perspective; in other words we aren't looking at the same angles and plays for an extended period of time. Is that the same reasoning at the NBA/WNBA level as well? Or is there some other rationale?

ChuckElias Wed Aug 31, 2005 09:01am

Quote:

Originally posted by M&M Guy
Chuck, I guess I'm a little curious - do you know the reasoning behind why they switch this way? I was told that, for example in 2-person, that we switch after every foul just to get a different perspective
Honestly, I don't know. But I would guess the reasoning is the same. Get the officials to see a defferent angle after each foul. After all, that's what happens in a 2-whistle game, right? All the officials switch positions. I guess the NBA uses the same philosophy in 3-whistle. All the officials switch.

M&M Guy Wed Aug 31, 2005 09:44am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by M&M Guy
Chuck, I guess I'm a little curious - do you know the reasoning behind why they switch this way? I was told that, for example in 2-person, that we switch after every foul just to get a different perspective
Honestly, I don't know. But I would guess the reasoning is the same. Get the officials to see a defferent angle after each foul. After all, that's what happens in a 2-whistle game, right? All the officials switch positions. I guess the NBA uses the same philosophy in 3-whistle. All the officials switch.

I think the reason they don't have everyone switch in 3-person in Fed. or NCAA is because they always want at least one set of eyes frozen on the players, to keep the extra-cirricular stuff to a minimum. I guess in the pro leagues everyone's more grown-up and mature, so dead ball stuff probably won't happen. ;)

Snake~eyes Wed Aug 31, 2005 02:38pm

Quote:

Originally posted by M&M Guy
Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by M&M Guy
Chuck, I guess I'm a little curious - do you know the reasoning behind why they switch this way? I was told that, for example in 2-person, that we switch after every foul just to get a different perspective
Honestly, I don't know. But I would guess the reasoning is the same. Get the officials to see a defferent angle after each foul. After all, that's what happens in a 2-whistle game, right? All the officials switch positions. I guess the NBA uses the same philosophy in 3-whistle. All the officials switch.

I think the reason they don't have everyone switch in 3-person in Fed. or NCAA is because they always want at least one set of eyes frozen on the players, to keep the extra-cirricular stuff to a minimum. I guess in the pro leagues everyone's more grown-up and mature, so dead ball stuff probably won't happen. ;)

Or maybe the NBA guys are so good that they can switch and keep eyes on the players.

ocreferee Wed Aug 31, 2005 03:26pm

From Toliver's camp
 
We worked these mechanics (NBA/WNBA) at George Toliver's camp and I liked them a lot. Chuck has it right... George explains it as the calling official goes to Trail and the other 2 officials relocate. In relocating you may only move 3 feet from Trail to Center but you become a new position. The theory is just like 2 person, you are in a different position after each foul (unless you are trail and called the foul, then which you stay at trail).

For back court/change of direction fouls there is no relocation.

ChuckElias Wed Aug 31, 2005 03:29pm

Re: From Toliver's camp
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ocreferee
For back court/change of direction fouls there is no relocation.
Unless it's a loose ball foul and we're shooting FTs, right?

ocreferee Wed Aug 31, 2005 03:39pm

Re: Re: From Toliver's camp
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by ocreferee
For back court/change of direction fouls there is no relocation.
Unless it's a loose ball foul and we're shooting FTs, right?

True, on all shooting fouls the calling official is going to trail. Luckily at camp we played NFHS rules with NBA mechanics so no loose ball fouls to worry about.

ChuckElias Wed Aug 31, 2005 03:55pm

Re: Re: Re: From Toliver's camp
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ocreferee
Luckily at camp we played NFHS rules with NBA mechanics so no loose ball fouls to worry about.
I like the loose ball mechanic b/c it gives me two extra seconds to figure out which end of the court I need to point toward.

Snake~eyes Wed Aug 31, 2005 08:23pm

Re: From Toliver's camp
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ocreferee
We worked these mechanics (NBA/WNBA) at George Toliver's camp and I liked them a lot. Chuck has it right... George explains it as the calling official goes to Trail and the other 2 officials relocate. In relocating you may only move 3 feet from Trail to Center but you become a new position. The theory is just like 2 person, you are in a different position after each foul (unless you are trail and called the foul, then which you stay at trail).

For back court/change of direction fouls there is no relocation.

How'd you like Tolliver's? I was thinking about going next year. Please tell me more about the camp and your overall experience. Thanks

ocreferee Thu Sep 01, 2005 07:12am

Re: Re: From Toliver's camp
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Snake~eyes

How'd you like Tolliver's? I was thinking about going next year. Please tell me more about the camp and your overall experience. Thanks

This year was my second trip (first was in '98) to Harrisonburg for George's camp. I truly enjoyed my time there. It is a fantastic teaching camp with NBA, NBDL, and NCAA officials as clinicians. They work extremely hard at ensuring everyone learns whether they are in their first year of officiating or working NBA summer league (we had officials at both these extremes at camp this year).

It is NOT a tryout camp. Although a few supervisors do attend for a day. This year Brenda Gelston (Colonial Women) and Luis Grillo (MEAC men) both made appearances at camp. I don't know if they picked anyone up but they did get a chance to see 40 officials, many of whom are young, quality officials. George is also now on the NBA/WNBA supervisory staff so I assume if he liked someone he could get you a shot in the NBA system (starting with the D League).

Other positives are that you stay in a hotel, eat great food (Subway lunches and a local restaurant for dinner). You usually work no more than 3 games in a day as well.

This year camp did not fill up but in the past it has been at capacity. You can get more information at http://www.toliverbasketball.com

Hope this helps! I am definitely trying to go back next year.

OCReferee


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