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Sat Mar 12, 2005, 11:19am
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I'm glad to hear that you're teaching your players about LGP. Honestly too few coaches even understand it, let alone teach their players about it. But all that aside, how do you feel and how tested is that precious patience of your when one of your guys gets called for a PC when you think the other team's guard suffered some minor contact but mostly put on an oscar winning performance? Are you standing and applauding along with the other team's fans about their great defense? Or are you getting hot under the collar because their guy flopped and your guy got screwed by good acting? How loud is your applause when that call that rewarded such "good defense" earned your star player his 5th foul in a close game? Is your applause all the louder still for believing that had the other team's actor not put on such a stellar performance, the contact probably would have been no-called? And if perchance one of these little acting jobs gets you a little steamed, I'm sure you'll feel comforted to hear the official remind you to not be "so insecure that you have to defend your honor and not let a 9th grader 'get over on you'." But perhaps I don't give you enough credit. After all, he had LGP and we are supposed to be rewarding good defense. 
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"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming 
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Sat Mar 12, 2005, 11:22am
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No call, block, T, choose one. But when the defender helps himself to the floor or tries to embellish the contact, I'll NEVER call it a PC foul." quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser "...Sure, sure. Now I'll see this crap next season and they'll tell me that you didn't have a problem with it." Rich.... I don't think I've seen anyone make that "auto-T" for a 'flop' this season.... (Agree on your statement re: game management!) Hey....battle @ Watertown tonight....Catholic Central vs. Randolph for spot in next week's State Tournament. wl [Edited by imaref on Mar 12th, 2005 at 11:26 AM]
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"All our calls are good calls...." "...Some of them are better than others!" 
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Sat Mar 12, 2005, 12:50pm
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If you have this falling BEFORE the plowing through, you no-longer have LGP, and to call anything but a block is not supported by rules or common sense. What are you calling if B1 is backpeddling and they trip and fall and then A1 lowers their shoulder to regain balance and falls over the prone B1? 
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Sun Mar 13, 2005, 03:09am
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If B1 is backpeddling and falls then A1 falls over him...nothing at all. B1 was already on the floor, the only contact was A1 falling over B1...and B1 is entitled to that spot. A1 got unlucky. To add one more comment.... The difference in the latter case is when the contact occurs. If B1 is already on the ground by the time of contact, I agree, no PC. If B1 still takes contact in the torso in the process of falling...PC. [Edited by Camron Rust on Mar 13th, 2005 at 03:14 AM]
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
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Sun Mar 13, 2005, 01:56pm
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When I first started officiating Rodman was making the flop the norm in the NBA, and it trickled down to where coaches were teaching their players to do it. In our meetings we discussed how to handle it, and we all thought a T was too harsh, so an if you flop it's a block rule was installed. Within 2 weeks flopping stopped, because we penalized the act uniformally. Whenever a coach would question a block with, "Where's the contact?" A simple, "Then why was your player on the floor?" Did the trick. Now I know that is drastic, but flopping was happening much more in the early 90's than it is now. It's a no-call from me more now, but I will call it a block if they hinder the offensive players path or landing with minimal contact, especially in the lane. Both the no-call and the block call are followed with a stop flopping warning. It's rare to ever have to call a block, on a flop, on that player again. I'd like to see an official warning and then the T, that covers the entire team, just like the delay of game technical.
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Sun Mar 13, 2005, 03:39pm
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Thought about heading down to the Kohl Center to watch some of the girls' tourney, but my wife needed some assistance with the baby last night at home. It'll be different watching those 3-person crews on TV next season. 'Bout time.
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Sun Mar 13, 2005, 10:24pm
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Whacked someone for flopping today. Had warned him once earlier. In the middle of the lane, absolutely NO CONTACT, not even slight contact, A1 does a pancake kicking his legs out and landing face first. It didn't even make sense that someone would be "pushed" like that. B2 was coming down the lane as well and had I not blown the play dead may have had to jump over him. To top it all off, he gave me a look asking where the call was.
When I gave him "the call" he and his team went ballastic, letting me know there was no rule against flopping. They assured me that rule was only in hockey (is it? Not a hockey fan here...). Ironically, the team lost by one point. The flop technical was mid-way through the first half but of course they started cussing me out after the game blaming my made up technical foul on their loss. I simply sat at the table taking numbers down. This same bunch of goofballs got called for a really easy 5 second call, when they let me know the person has to be right up next to them and not if they are a few feet away. I asked what rule they were referencing, they told me to watch basketball, that its called like that. I smiled and moved down court.
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Sun Mar 13, 2005, 10:57pm
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Thought about heading down to the Kohl Center to watch some of the girls' tourney, but my wife needed some assistance with the baby last night at home. It'll be different watching those 3-person crews on TV next season. 'Bout time. [/QUOTE] Rich... My partner and I went over to Fort Atkinson HS Friday night to watch Randolph vs. Racine Lutheran. It was a pretty good game to watch....Randolph started slow with the game very similar to the game we had when they played Wayland Acadamy. There was a better match up in personnel...but the Lutheran slow down failed to stay disiplined and Randolph got Lutheran into a run game and it was over. I didn't think Randolph (Sat. nite) would have as easy a game with Catholic Central with all the news reports about their big player John Henney. Apparently he got into foul trouble and his replacement wasn't a good match for Tillema. It appears Randolph will get its 4th State title in a row! Three crew couldn't come soon enough! I may get an opportunity to get to the KOHL to catch some games. My partner may get his brother's tickets...if so, I'd like to catch Randolph one last time....but hope to see Madison Memorial and Beloit Memorial if possible. Thought I'd get a chance to see my 'ol Alma Mater....Janesville Craig get to State....but Beloit held all the cards Saturday night. Felt bad about Elkhorn missing out too! (We've got Madison Memorial v. Madison West next year on our schedule). Hope Boyce Hodge has mellowed out since his tirade last year. Heard he made some negative statements about the officials who had that game. He seemed to be a good guy when I met him at last October's WBCA Hall of Fame dinner. He and his wife sat at the same table with me. He thought I looked too young to be receiving my 30 year plaque from WBCA. Guess my "bald" head makes me look younger???? Oh well....time to relax and do my NCAA brackets and wean myself from basketball officiating for another season until the summer camps and "sweat leagues". Take care...maybe we'll bump into each other in Madison this weekend! wl [Edited by imaref on Mar 13th, 2005 at 11:01 PM]
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"All our calls are good calls...." "...Some of them are better than others!"
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Mon Mar 14, 2005, 06:23am
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7th grade CYO tournament championship game. Kid put both arms up in the air and fell backwards as if he were going to make a snow angel. (I think I am going to use the "snow angel" as my standard for a flopping T.) There wasn't any contact with the dribbler who simply went around him and laid it in. I withheld the whistle until the lay-up was made then T'd him. His team lost by 1.
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Mon Mar 14, 2005, 09:38am
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My partner and I went over to Fort Atkinson HS Friday night to watch Randolph vs. Racine Lutheran. It was a pretty good game to watch....Randolph started slow with the game very similar to the game we had when they played Wayland Acadamy. There was a better match up in personnel...but the Lutheran slow down failed to stay disiplined and Randolph got Lutheran into a run game and it was over. I didn't think Randolph (Sat. nite) would have as easy a game with Catholic Central with all the news reports about their big player John Henney. Apparently he got into foul trouble and his replacement wasn't a good match for Tillema. It appears Randolph will get its 4th State title in a row! Three crew couldn't come soon enough! I may get an opportunity to get to the KOHL to catch some games. My partner may get his brother's tickets...if so, I'd like to catch Randolph one last time....but hope to see Madison Memorial and Beloit Memorial if possible. Thought I'd get a chance to see my 'ol Alma Mater....Janesville Craig get to State....but Beloit held all the cards Saturday night. Felt bad about Elkhorn missing out too! (We've got Madison Memorial v. Madison West next year on our schedule). Hope Boyce Hodge has mellowed out since his tirade last year. Heard he made some negative statements about the officials who had that game. He seemed to be a good guy when I met him at last October's WBCA Hall of Fame dinner. He and his wife sat at the same table with me. He thought I looked too young to be receiving my 30 year plaque from WBCA. Guess my "bald" head makes me look younger???? Oh well....time to relax and do my NCAA brackets and wean myself from basketball officiating for another season until the summer camps and "sweat leagues". Take care...maybe we'll bump into each other in Madison this weekend! wl [Edited by imaref on Mar 13th, 2005 at 11:01 PM] [/B][/QUOTE] I have some comments about the Boyce incident, but I think they are better addressed by email. I'll send them to you if I get a chance this week. But I will say that I'd work there and work for Boyce anytime. I worked one of his games against Memorial last season at West. Even though they ended up losing the game, Boyce was very gracious to us before, during, and after the game. I have West again next season, hosting Parker on a Saturday afternoon.
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