Another first for me

[FrankHtown]

Ahhh, Ronny, now I understand what you are saying. However, look at 5.10.1 D. It describes where official blows whistle, sees 5 on clock, then sees clock go down to 4. According to the case book, the referee is NOT entitled to put 5 seconds back on the clock, because the timer is allowed 1 second to react. The screwy part is, if the timer lets the clock run further, down to 3..2...1....0 THEN the referee can put 5 back up. So, if your timer is gonna screw up, make sure he screws up royally.

[ronny mulkey]

JR,

Got it, believe it or not, that is what I have been trying to say all along. So, I'm not misreading it.

thanks

Mulk

[ronny mulkey]

Originally posted by FrankHtown
Ahhh, Ronny, now I understand what you are saying. However, look at 5.10.1 D. It describes where official blows whistle, sees 5 on clock, then sees clock go down to 4. According to the case book, the referee is NOT entitled to put 5 seconds back on the clock, because the timer is allowed 1 second to react. The screwy part is, if the timer lets the clock run further, down to 3..2...1....0 THEN the referee can put 5 back up. So, if your timer is gonna screw up, make sure he screws up royally.

Frank,

I understand what you are saying, as well. Seeing WHILE blowing (5.10.1.D) is different than blowing THEN seeing (5.10.1.B).

Also, I "understand" about putting all the time back on if the clock runs out verses putting all but 1 second back if the timer gets the clock stopped before it runs out. "Understand" is not the right word but I do know it is the correct ruling.

Mulk

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by bob jenkins
The college rule is the same (ignoring, for the moment, the fact that the clock stops after a basket in the last minute -- had the play been some sort of violation or foul, the NCAA ruling and the FED ruling would be the same).

Bob, while the rule may be the same, does the NCAA use the interpretation that the official is not permitted to put back time if it's less than one second? I can't find that anywhere.

You're saying that if we had a travel with 0.6 and the clock ran out, we'd end the game in NCAA? Even with definite knowledge? Even with a monitor to check?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Bob, while the rule may be the same, does the NCAA use the interpretation that the official is not permitted to put back time if it's less than one second? I can't find that anywhere. You're saying that if we had a travel with 0.6 and the clock ran out, we'd end the game in NCAA? Even with definite knowledge? Even with a monitor to check?

AR 28 under 2-12-10

edit: oops, AR 28 was 2004 book. AR 30 for the 2005 book

[Edited by Dan_ref on Mar 16th, 2005 at 10:30 PM]

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Bob, while the rule may be the same, does the NCAA use the interpretation that the official is not permitted to put back time if it's less than one second? I can't find that anywhere.

You're saying that if we had a travel with 0.6 and the clock ran out, we'd end the game in NCAA? Even with definite knowledge? Even with a monitor to check?

Yes. It was in one of the recent NCAA memos (see the NCAA web site).

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Yes. It was in one of the recent NCAA memos (see the NCAA web site).

How does that fit with AR 30 which specifically says that we can put the time back on if we have definite knowledge of what the time should be?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by rockyroad

How does that fit with AR 30 which specifically says that we can put the time back on if we have definite knowledge of what the time should be?

The AR is the same as the FED rule (if not as clear). If the clock stops within one second, leave it alone. If the clock doesn't stop within one second (cases b and c), put it back to what the official knows.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by rockyroad

How does that fit with AR 30 which specifically says that we can put the time back on if we have definite knowledge of what the time should be?

The AR is the same as the FED rule (if not as clear). If the clock stops within one second, leave it alone. If the clock doesn't stop within one second (cases b and c), put it back to what the official knows.

[rockyroad]

So did anyone see the game last night (I think it was West Virginia/Creighton) where the clock was at 2.4 when the whistle blew for the time-out, it ran down to 1.9, and the officials conferred and put it back to 2.4? The officials knew what it was supposed to be and reset it to that definite knowledge...

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by rockyroad
So did anyone see the game last night (I think it was West Virginia/Creighton) where the clock was at 2.4 when the whistle blew for the time-out, it ran down to 1.9, and the officials conferred and put it back to 2.4? The officials knew what it was supposed to be and reset it to that definite knowledge...

Don't remind me, I had Creighton. How the Creighton player camped under the basket all by himself could not grab that last rebound & put it in to tie the game I will never understand. Damn ball bounced off his hands....

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Don't remind me, I had Creighton. How the Creighton player camped under the basket all by himself could not grab that last rebound & put it in to tie the game I will never understand. Damn ball bounced off his hands....

While the officials knew that the clock ran a little bit after the TO, I doubt that they knew exactly what to reset it to. I think that they used the courtside monitor to obtain that information.

Also see my new thread on the apparent travel by Sally before he scored the final basket for WV.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
While the officials knew that the clock ran a little bit after the TO, I doubt that they knew exactly what to reset it to. I think that they used the courtside monitor to obtain that information.

Also see my new thread on the apparent travel by Sally before he scored the final basket for WV.

The clock stopped at 2.4

The ball was inbounded and the clock started.

The TO was granted before the ball was inbounded but the timer or one of the officials started the clock.

So, 2.4 was put back up.

As for traveling, it's rampant. They certainly aren't going to make that call on that play.

BTW, anyone notice that the officials are using Precision Time this year. It was not used last year.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

BTW, anyone notice that the officials are using Precision Time this year. It was not used last year.

Are you sure?

I've seen a bunch of officials with their hand on their hip out of habit, but not a single game where PT was actually used. If so, at what sites have you seen it?

[Nevadaref]

I have not seen the PT device in any game this year either. I have seen a few officials chop the clock from either the T or C when the Lead is administering an endline throw-in in the frontcourt.
This alone tells me that PT is not being used on those particular games.


Perhaps the women's mechanic is filtering into the men's side. I don't think that this is a bad mechanic either. I just hate the whistle prior to the endline throw-in that the women's game uses.