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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 12, 2005, 10:44pm
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Last boys JV of the year. Down to the last possession. Team A has the ball with 7 seconds, down by 1. Team A turns ball over, I was the lead now new trail. Team B drives for a lay-up and misses. I am now at midcourt becoming new lead. As I turn I see Coach A indicating timeout, as I look at the clock, time has expired.

I was the R and he is starring at me with his hands above his head signaling a time out. My partner meets me at halfcout and he is still starring at me at which time I tell him, game over.

Unfortunately, our jackets were still at the table and I needed to retrieve them. As I make may over, Coach A makes a point of walking over to the scorebook and drawing a big black circle around my name.

Curious how any of you would handle this situation.



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Old Sat Feb 12, 2005, 10:53pm
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Strange behavior... How did you handle the situation?
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 12, 2005, 10:53pm
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally posted by djskinn
Curious how any of you would handle this situation.
djskinn,
Expect the request.
Then respect the request.
Grant the time-out immediately.
Apprently, because there was no horn, there was still time left.
mick
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Old Sat Feb 12, 2005, 10:58pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by djskinn
Last boys JV of the year. Down to the last possession. Team A has the ball with 7 seconds, down by 1. Team A turns ball over, I was the lead now new trail. Team B drives for a lay-up and misses. I am now at midcourt becoming new lead. As I turn I see Coach A indicating timeout, as I look at the clock, time has expired.

I was the R and he is starring at me with his hands above his head signaling a time out. My partner meets me at halfcout and he is still starring at me at which time I tell him, game over.

Unfortunately, our jackets were still at the table and I needed to retrieve them. As I make may over, Coach A makes a point of walking over to the scorebook and drawing a big black circle around my name.

Curious how any of you would handle this situation.




My first question to you is: I would like to ask you why were your jackets still at the Scorer/Timer's Table. You should have taken your jackets with to the officials' dressing room at halftime. By you and your partner having to go back to the Table at the end of the game just puts you in harms way.

Having chastised you for your jacket snafu, lets address the coach's actions. I do not know in which what state you officiate, but as reprehensible as the coach's actions are, I do not think there is much you can do. You should not have been at the Table. Let's face it, there are far too many H.S. coaches who are the south end of a donkey walking to the north.

MTD, Sr.
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Old Sat Feb 12, 2005, 11:34pm
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I'm assuming A rebounded the ball from the missed lay-up. The timeout is granted when an OFFICIAL recognizes it - not when the coach requests it. His players should have been aware of the situation and requested a timeout sooner. Too bad for team A, but they lose - game's over.

Similar situation happened to me last night. I'm at C, and A hits a layup to go ahead by 2 with about 0.6 on the clock. B requests a timeout, but by the time the L (new T) recognizes the request and blows his whistle, time expired. As R, I was sure the game was over. Thankfully, I was also backed up by lag time rules.
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Old Sun Feb 13, 2005, 12:35am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Dexter
I'm assuming A rebounded the ball from the missed lay-up. The timeout is granted when an OFFICIAL recognizes it - not when the coach requests it. His players should have been aware of the situation and requested a timeout sooner. Too bad for team A, but they lose - game's over.

Great post, I think if the coach is petty enough to blackball you because he didn't get a call, then it's better off you only had to deal with him this time. There will be other schools for you to work at, stuff like this makes me glad I work for an assignor and the coaches don't get a say.

Now lets just say that team A was up by a point and the coach did the same thing. Is this a T-able offence?? Or do you just let him do this. I don't have much experience dealing with coaches post game so I really haven't set my limits here yet.
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Old Sun Feb 13, 2005, 01:22am
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Quote:
Originally posted by djskinn
Last boys JV of the year. Down to the last possession. Team A has the ball with 7 seconds, down by 1. Team A turns ball over, I was the lead now new trail. Team B drives for a lay-up and misses. I am now at midcourt becoming new lead. As I turn I see Coach A indicating timeout, as I look at the clock, time has expired.

I was the R and he is starring at me with his hands above his head signaling a time out. My partner meets me at halfcout and he is still starring at me at which time I tell him, game over.

Unfortunately, our jackets were still at the table and I needed to retrieve them. As I make may over, Coach A makes a point of walking over to the scorebook and drawing a big black circle around my name.

Curious how any of you would handle this situation.



Whoops. Jackets go in at halftime and you get your a$$ off the court on the horn. That'll learn ya.
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Old Sun Feb 13, 2005, 02:06am
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What Rich said.

If you had your jackets in the locker room, you would have never known what happen right after the game. There is nothing you can do about this.

Peace
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Old Sun Feb 13, 2005, 02:13am
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Re: What Rich said.

Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
If you had your jackets in the locker room, you would have never known what happen right after the game. There is nothing you can do about this.

Peace
I used to joke that I would be out of the gym before the final horn stopped blaring. But that's a bit of an overexaggeration.

Serious question: Does everyone actually use jackets for underclass games? I'm never there at the beginning and I've never really noticed whether the JV officials have them.

I like the NCAAW pregame. Check the book and then go off the floor until there's 3:00 on the clock -- leave the jackets in the locker room. One less thing to worry about.

It's very rare that one of us has to go in once we are out for HS games (at the 20:00 mark where I live). But if for some reason one of us has to go in after the captain's meeting (forgot something or perhaps that bottle of water has kicked in) the jackets go in with that person.
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Old Sun Feb 13, 2005, 02:19am
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Re: Re: What Rich said.

Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser


Serious question: Does everyone actually use jackets for underclass games? I'm never there at the beginning and I've never really noticed whether the JV officials have them.
I see them for many prelim games. I think they should be worn in those cases. I did wear mine when I worked a freshman game earlier this year. I think it is an individual crew thing or decision. It just depends on the setting you are in. But I would not have them at the table so a coach could rag on me.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 13, 2005, 02:21am
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Did A have the ball on the rebound?

Did the horn sound before or after the rebound?

I'm thinking that if you had time to look at the coach and then to the clock, the timeout should have been granted.

Be aware of game situations and you will anticipate the timeout in that situation. Get in the habit of looking at the clock on the whistle in game ending situations.
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Old Sun Feb 13, 2005, 09:24am
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Re: Re: Re: What Rich said.

Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser


Serious question: Does everyone actually use jackets for underclass games? I'm never there at the beginning and I've never really noticed whether the JV officials have them.
I see them for many prelim games. I think they should be worn in those cases. I did wear mine when I worked a freshman game earlier this year. I think it is an individual crew thing or decision. It just depends on the setting you are in. But I would not have them at the table so a coach could rag on me.

Rich and Rut,
Wearing a jacket at JV level and lower is very rare U.P. here. Subvarsity officials generally don't even bring a jacket to the site. But, it's part of my uniform.

In fact, a few weeks ago we were working a 3-man JV-V double, and the Referee specifically said we would not wear jackets for the JV game. ...I took mine off.
mick


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Old Sun Feb 13, 2005, 10:43am
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Do you really think a JV coach has a whole lotta say in things? If the game was this past week, call the AD and thank him for allowing you to work at his gym and tell him you'd love to be invited back next year. I bet he'll let you know what's up right then. Heck depending on how far in advance they schedule, have your calendar ready.
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Old Sun Feb 13, 2005, 10:47am
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[/B][/QUOTE]
My first question to you is: I would like to ask you why were your jackets still at the Scorer/Timer's Table. You should have taken your jackets with to the officials' dressing room at halftime. By you and your partner having to go back to the Table at the end of the game just puts you in harms way.

MTD, Sr. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes, big mistake for leaving the jackets. I had a new official working his first time with me and he started asking questions and wanting to know how he did in the first half as soon as the first half was over.

I simply forgot and sure enough, when the game was over I realized I was going to have to go to the table where nothing good can happen.

Quote:
Originally posted by QuebecRef87
Strange behavior... How did you handle the situation?
This was a coach I had for two previous games in the season, both losses, and both games he had received a T from me. I just ignored him and walked away.

[/B][/QUOTE]djskinn,
Expect the request.
Then respect the request.
Grant the time-out immediately.
Apprently, because there was no horn, there was still time left.
mick
[/B][/QUOTE]

I may not have described the situation adequately, but I feel with a great degree of certainty Team A had no time left. Even if he had indicated a time-out, I know for sure their was less than a second when the initial shot was released by Team B, which resulted with Team A rebounding. I was the trail with a good view of the clock and shooter.

[/B][/QUOTE]
Great post, I think if the coach is petty enough to blackball you because he didn't get a call, then it's better off you only had to deal with him this time.[/B][/QUOTE]

Fortunetly, I work in North Carolina and to my knowledge we do not have a "blackball" process. I was not really worried concerned about his particular action, but had never had it occur during one my games, whether I was the referee or not.

This same coach sits the bench as an assistant for the same schools varsity, and I have had them as a varsity contest at least four times this season.

[/B][/QUOTE]
Serious question: Does everyone actually use jackets for underclass games? I'm never there at the beginning and I've never really noticed whether the JV officials have them.[/B][/QUOTE]

I treat all my games as if they are varsity games. I don't like taking any shortcuts and try and keep the same routine for all games.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 13, 2005, 01:41pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by djskinn
My first question to you is: I would like to ask you why were your jackets still at the Scorer/Timer's Table. You should have taken your jackets with to the officials' dressing room at halftime. By you and your partner having to go back to the Table at the end of the game just puts you in harms way.

MTD, Sr. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes, big mistake for leaving the jackets. I had a new official working his first time with me and he started asking questions and wanting to know how he did in the first half as soon as the first half was over.

I simply forgot and sure enough, when the game was over I realized I was going to have to go to the table where nothing good can happen.

Quote:
Originally posted by QuebecRef87
Strange behavior... How did you handle the situation?
This was a coach I had for two previous games in the season, both losses, and both games he had received a T from me. I just ignored him and walked away.

[/B][/QUOTE]djskinn,
Expect the request.
Then respect the request.
Grant the time-out immediately.
Apprently, because there was no horn, there was still time left.
mick
[/B][/QUOTE]

I may not have described the situation adequately, but I feel with a great degree of certainty Team A had no time left. Even if he had indicated a time-out, I know for sure their was less than a second when the initial shot was released by Team B, which resulted with Team A rebounding. I was the trail with a good view of the clock and shooter.

[/B][/QUOTE]
Great post, I think if the coach is petty enough to blackball you because he didn't get a call, then it's better off you only had to deal with him this time.[/B][/QUOTE]

Fortunetly, I work in North Carolina and to my knowledge we do not have a "blackball" process. I was not really worried concerned about his particular action, but had never had it occur during one my games, whether I was the referee or not.

This same coach sits the bench as an assistant for the same schools varsity, and I have had them as a varsity contest at least four times this season.

[/B][/QUOTE]
Serious question: Does everyone actually use jackets for underclass games? I'm never there at the beginning and I've never really noticed whether the JV officials have them.[/B][/QUOTE]

I treat all my games as if they are varsity games. I don't like taking any shortcuts and try and keep the same routine for all games. [/B][/QUOTE]

That's great, but a lot of JV officials around here probably (1) show up 5 minutes before gametime and (2) probably don't own jackets. Out in the rural areas, many don't even own black shoes or proper officiating pants. Or shirts with v-necks. Or Fox 40 whistles. Or they feel the need to wear a watch on the court. You get the picture.

I never show up until the second quarter or so, so I was just wondering.

--Rich
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