States & 2 man vs 3 man

[JAdams]

it goes by conference, but all boys varsity that I know of are 3-whistle, and a growing number of girls varsity is now also 3-whistle. Almost all sub-varsity is still 2-whistle.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Mr. Spelling's head just exploded.

Good! That was my intent! We kant spel in da Souf.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Good! That was my intent! We kant spel in da Souf.

[Almost Always Right]

Northern Nevada has 4 classes(A,2A,3A,4A)3A and 4A.
All V contests for 3A and 4A is 3 person.
Some pre-season 4A tourneys have requested 2 person due to that being their fund raisers.
All post-season games are 3 person. That starts next week for us.
$55.50 for 2 person V games
$45.00 for 4A 3 person V games
3 for the price of 2 agreement in 3A as this their first year for 3 person crews. So it is essentially $37.00 for 3A V games.
We are very fortunate to be in the sitch that we are.
AAR

[shawn29]

5 Classifications 1A-5A. 3 Whistle in varsity games except for some lower classification non-conference games. And the three schools that I have some 9th grade games at I have taken 3 whistle crews there also. State Association has set minimum pay scale at $30 per official per varsity contest and $25 per official for jv and below. In 3A and below you will call a 9th grade game,followed by 2 V contests. In 4-5A, they have a jv game usually and contract that game out to locals some of the time so the V crew doesnt call it.

[Larks]

Ohio...

BV - all 3 whistle
GV - most 3 whistle, some leagues still 2

Varsity pays $50-$55 in our area regardless of gender or school division. Just depends on the league

all FR and JV are 2 whistle
Most everyone's FR is $25. JV you get $30-$37.

[dblref]

Originally posted by David B
We in Mississippi have been doing three man for the last four/five years and all three man in playoffs the last two years.

At first they only did three man for the larger schools.

Our local association does solely three man for all varsity contests.

We found that was a great way to keep our veteran officials from giving it up. Lot easier on the legs.

And most of them only do three man in college etc.,

thanks
David

David: I may have asked you this before, but memory is going bad. What part of MS? I grew up in Hattiesburg and went to USM - class of '70.

[jdccpa]

A third official is cheaper than a second policeman.

[PA Official]

How consistant can we be as officials if we are switching back and forth? Not in mechanics, because it shouldn't really take more than a handful of games to get the rotations down in 3 man, but in calling the game? I assume that more whistles are made in a 3 man game because more court is watched. This would drive me crazy if I were a coach, to play one style of ball all year long, reach the playoffs, and find another style of game.

Coaches always state they want consistancy in officials. It needs to be consistant across the season. Budget constraints or not, I think its only fair to go one way or the other the entire season.

[cford]

Originally posted by PA Official
How consistant can we be as officials if we are switching back and forth? Not in mechanics, because it shouldn't really take more than a handful of games to get the rotations down in 3 man, but in calling the game? I assume that more whistles are made in a 3 man game because more court is watched. This would drive me crazy if I were a coach, to play one style of ball all year long, reach the playoffs, and find another style of game.

Coaches always state they want consistancy in officials. It needs to be consistant across the season. Budget constraints or not, I think its only fair to go one way or the other the entire season.

I can't tell you if more whistles are being blown in 3 person but if you are a coach that wants a fair game called then he/she should recognize that they will get a better officiated game w/ 3 person most of the time. I know that when doing 2 person with varsity quality players and alot of activity in the post it is extremely hard to see everything. There might even be less calls made in 3 person because the crew caught all the rough post play, hand checking, illegal screens early in the game. If players get away with it early then they are more inclined to play that way the entire game. When working 2 person it is easier to let a game get away from you. You end up only seeing retaliations which frustrate players and encourages the first one to do it again. IMO.

[RollTide]

Pa Official,

You brought up one of the points I've thought about as I read some of these other posts. However, I'm not sure I agree with your statement about 'mechanics'.

The biggest difference, from my experience anyway, in working 2 man vs 3 man is working the Lead, frontcourt-baseline. Whereas in a 2 man crew, we don't rotate, in a 3 man crew you do cross the lane and rotate.

I can tell you that I see a big difference in the way a lot of our veterans (non college level officials) that called 2 man for 20+ years (no rotating with ball in the frontcourt) work the baseline vs the younger officials that have worked in 3 man crews their entire tenure (5-6 years).

The younger less experienced guys rotate much quicker than the veterans. If I were to call all season in 2 man crews then have to implement 3 man 'mechanics' for playoffs, I personally don't think the 3 man crew will call nearly as good of a game.

Reasons I would offer to validate this statement:
1) I wouldn't rotate when working the L nearly as much as I probably should (remember, when the L doesn't rotate when needed, C and T are NOT in good positions to referee)

2) I wouldn't be used to the different primary area

3) I would be more hesitant to blow my whistle because of indecision as to whether or not it is my call

4) I would be doing too much thinking instead of being able to relax, let my reflexes/instincts take over, because I would be out of my normal element

I assume the 'mechanics' you were referring to are what positions we are to take on the floor following fouls, violations, oob in frontcourt/backcourt, etc. I would agree that those mechanics would be easy to adjust to (to the officials that have called in a few 3 man crews before)

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by RollTide
Pa Official,

You brought up one of the points I've thought about as I read some of these other posts. However, I'm not sure I agree with your statement about 'mechanics'.

The biggest difference, from my experience anyway, in working 2 man vs 3 man is working the Lead, frontcourt-baseline. Whereas in a 2 man crew, we don't rotate, in a 3 man crew you do cross the lane and rotate.

Why don't you rotate as lead? I do and most that I know around here do. You just have to get back to the other side when you go the other way.

[RollTide]

I've only worked 3 man crew the past 6 years or so except for one game when one of my partners didn't show and we worked 2 man (and that was 4 years ago). If my memory serves me correctly, I had to catch myself when I was L not crossing the lane.

I don't recall from my 2 man days where we ever were supposed to have both officials on the same side of the court. Maybe we did, but, that was many many many ballgames ago.

[regs12]

Virigina also. I like the set up here 3 person varsity AA or higher. In my district public schools Single A must use 3 person and if they don't want to then they can find another association. Strong commissioner here, its nice.

[bigzilla]

In Oklahoma, its up to the home school until playoffs. They decide what kind of crew, what the pay will be, and for the most part, in cases outside the metro areas (Tulsa and OKC), they hire the refs. The metro areas use
assignors. In rural areas, you contract your own games.

Regular season, 6A and most 5A use 3 man. 4A, 3A, 2A, A, and B use 2 man.

Playoffs, 6A and 5A use 3 man, all others use 2 man.

JV- 2 man

Jr. Hi, all use 2 man.

Regualr season, no set fees. Different schools pay different amounts. Playoffs, state association sets fee at $35 per game.

Regular season, one crew works all games. High school - varsity girls then varsity boys. 2 man crew works both games, and paid between $85 - 100. 3 man crew works both games, and paid around $70.

JV- 2 man, work both boys and girls JV, usually $60.
Jr high- usually $25 per game, which is either 3 boys or 3 girls games.