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Re: The dribbler does not have to touch it first to be an illegal dribble
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foulbuster |
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Palming/carrying the ball is a vilation. It's an illegal dribble and there is a signal for it. DO NOT call traveling in this situation. It will only further confuse EVERYONE in the gym. DO NOT call a double dribble in this situation. It will only further confuse EVERYONE in the gym. There is a specific mechanic in the rule book for these very reasons. And if you don't think there's such a violation, pull out your rule book from 2000-01 and read the POE on palming/carrying the ball. It is not traveling and it is not a double dribble. It is a separate violation. 2000-01 Points of Emphasis 4. Palming Offensive players "palming" the ball continue to gain a tremendous advantage over defensive player(s). Emphasis is not only to be given to the dribbler's hand position, but also the activity of the ball while the dribble is occurring. "Palming" not only occurs while the palm is facing "skyward," but can also occur while the palm is facing the floor. The key to officiating this play consistently and correctly is to determine if the ball has "come to rest" (4-15-4 b). Where we are seeing a definite advantage to the offensive player is on the hesitation "move" to beat a defender (toward the basket or just to go by them). In many of these instances, the ball is "coming to rest" in the dribbler's hand. A violation must be called by the official, as there is no way to legally defend against this move. [Edited by BktBallRef on Feb 2nd, 2005 at 01:47 PM] |
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Re: Splitting Hairs
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If the player is number 0, it's travelling. If the player is number 00, it's double-dribble. ![]() |
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Re: Re: The dribbler does not have to touch it first to be an illegal dribble
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By your definition if I end my dribble and then start a new one, it would not be a violation if the defense touched the ball after it hit the floor but before I touched it. |
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Re: Re: Re: The dribbler does not have to touch it first to be an illegal dribble
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By your stance that pass would be an illegal dribble. ![]() |
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Re: Re: Splitting Hairs
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If, during the carry, the feet moved, it was a traveling...since you couldn't yet tell if they were going to continue the dribble or not. If the feet didn't move and they continued the dribbler, it was an illegal dribble. The result was the same as the carrying violation that we've had all but those 1-2 years. They changed it back...as BBR says...due to the absolute confusion it caused.
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
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OK, I'll ask you, how do you know its the start of a dribble. Mind reader....HHHHhhhmmmm. Its like a player appearing to take a shot. Defender fouls the player and she passes the ball. Well, I will not rule she was in the act of shooting. I am not a mind reader so i have to rely what actually happened.
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foulbuster |
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Re: Re: Re: The dribbler does not have to touch it first to be an illegal dribble
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"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming |
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Re: Re: Re: Re: The dribbler does not have to touch it first to be an illegal dribble
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Anyone else agree? |
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The dribbler does not have to touch it first to be an illegal dribble
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There's also some play where A1 passes toward A2 who runs away. A1 chases the ball and gathers it after it hits the floor. Ruling: It's a dribble after A1 touches it. The play as described (A1 jumps in the air, releases the ball and doesn't touch it) is just a pass. |
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I don't have anything until he touches the ball. The times I see this play is when the player hasn't started the dribble yet and they think they can start the dribble after airborne.
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foulbuster |
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The dribbler does not have to touch it first to be an illegal
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Ok. Now that you mention it I do remember those cases and I believe you are correct that they were the first to touch it. So I stand corrected there. However, I don't believe that the same applies to a situation Bart and I have previously discussed. For example, if I end my dribble and then initiate another one by pushing the ball to the floor, Bart says its not a violation unless I'm the first to touch it after it hits the floor. I say the violation occurred the second I started the dribble. There reason I say this is in this play it is clearly not a pass. I started a dribble. If you say that the violation occurs only if I'm the first to touch it after it hits the floor, then a defender could touch the ball before I do and negate the violation. I don't believe that is the intent of the rule nor is it stated that way. |
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The dribbler does not have to touch it first to be an illegal
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I think you're both right ![]()
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"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming |
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The dribbler does not have to touch it first to be an
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Lah me, if you delay your whistle and the player that started the drbble didn't touch it again, where did the violation disappear to? There is no rule that states that a player who has already dribbled can't drop the ball,pass, shoot or start a second dribble. What they can't do is make a second dribble. Starting a dribble is not making a dribble. This has to be one of the most basic rules around. I can't believe the amount of confusion surrounding it. |
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