View Single Post
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 02, 2005, 06:14pm
Back In The Saddle Back In The Saddle is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: In a little pink house
Posts: 5,289
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The dribbler does not have to touch it first to be an illegal

Quote:
Originally posted by rwest
Quote:
Originally posted by bob jenkins
Quote:
Originally posted by rwest
This is a violation. I believe there is even a case book play for this. I'll have to check when I get home. However, if I understand the situation you indicated above, the player was airbourne (i.e. both feet off the floor). He then dropped the ball to the floor. This is considered the start of a dribble. The player can not do this to protect himself. He started a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor. Classic travel.

Anyone else agree?

I can't speak for "anyone", but I disagree. The case(s) to which you are referring are 4.43.3A and 4.43.3B In both cases the player drops the ball to the floor and touches it. That's what makes it illegal. See also 9.5 "...provided A1 is the first to touch the ball" (and while this case deals with the ball hitting the opponents backboard or an official, those are the same as the ball hitting the floor).

There's also some play where A1 passes toward A2 who runs away. A1 chases the ball and gathers it after it hits the floor. Ruling: It's a dribble after A1 touches it.

The play as described (A1 jumps in the air, releases the ball and doesn't touch it) is just a pass.


Ok. Now that you mention it I do remember those cases and I believe you are correct that they were the first to touch it. So I stand corrected there.

However, I don't believe that the same applies to a situation Bart and I have previously discussed. For example, if I end my dribble and then initiate another one by pushing the ball to the floor, Bart says its not a violation unless I'm the first to touch it after it hits the floor. I say the violation occurred the second I started the dribble. There reason I say this is in this play it is clearly not a pass. I started a dribble. If you say that the violation occurs only if I'm the first to touch it after it hits the floor, then a defender could touch the ball before I do and negate the violation. I don't believe that is the intent of the rule nor is it stated that way.





I'm working without my books here, so feel free to slap me with a rule reference if I'm wrong....

I think you're both right The violation occurs the instant the ball is released on the second dribble. However, it may not always be possible to determine if it really is a dribble until they've touched it the second time. You may have to delay the call. In the case of the opponent touching the ball, you're going to have to exercise some judgement. If in your judgement it was the beginning of a second dribble, call the double dribble because the violation happened first. If not, don't call it. For me, it'll probably have to look a lot like a pass (or a helluvalot like he abandoned the ball) for me not to call it.
__________________
"It is not enough to do your best; you must know what to do, and then do your best." - W. Edwards Deming
Reply With Quote