oob T

[cloverdale]

jv game i'm lead on the endline...A1 is oob and given the ball and throws in to A2 at top of key...A1 stays oob and runs behind backboard reenters the court on opposite side to recieve the pass from A2...I tee him up and we go from there...coach yells endline violation not tech...now i'm second guessing wether I have the right call and at half time my partner says violation, the 2 varsity refs I ask one doesn't know for sure the other says tech but nobody calls it...later in the rule book all i can find is 10-3-3...is this the correct application, if not what is the right rule,or was it the wrong call...I felt that if it was a live ball situation and an offensive player used the oob lines to get away from the defense to come back on the court to recieve the pass would be a player tech according to this rule...

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by cloverdale
jv game i'm lead on the endline...A1 is oob and given the ball and throws in to A2 at top of key...A1 stays oob and runs behind backboard reenters the court on opposite side to recieve the pass from A2...I tee him up and we go from there...coach yells endline violation not tech...now i'm second guessing wether I have the right call and at half time my partner says violation, the 2 varsity refs I ask one doesn't know for sure the other says tech but nobody calls it...later in the rule book all i can find is 10-3-3...is this the correct application, if not what is the right rule,or was it the wrong call...I felt that if it was a live ball situation and an offensive player used the oob lines to get away from the defense to come back on the court to recieve the pass would be a player tech according to this rule...

I don't have my books, so I'm not sure about the reference, but you're right about the rule for NFHS. In college, I think, it's a violation, but don't quote me.

[Adam]

Originally posted by cloverdale
jv game i'm lead on the endline...A1 is oob and given the ball and throws in to A2 at top of key...A1 stays oob and runs behind backboard reenters the court on opposite side to recieve the pass from A2...I tee him up and we go from there...coach yells endline violation not tech...now i'm second guessing wether I have the right call and at half time my partner says violation, the 2 varsity refs I ask one doesn't know for sure the other says tech but nobody calls it...later in the rule book all i can find is 10-3-3...is this the correct application, if not what is the right rule,or was it the wrong call...I felt that if it was a live ball situation and an offensive player used the oob lines to get away from the defense to come back on the court to recieve the pass would be a player tech according to this rule...

You are correct. This is a technical foul, not a violation. I believe it may be an throw-in violation in NCAA, but in NFHS it's a Tech. Your play is exactly what the NFHS wants called, IMO.

[Nevadaref]

10.3.3 Situation B says that it is a player technical foul in NFHS play.

In NCAA games this play is either legal or a violation. It may be legal if A1 gets inbounds and another player touches the ball after he obtains inbounds status then the ball is passed to him. So A1 to A2 to A3 then back to A1 might be legal.
From the NCAA rule book:
BR-128 RULE 9-2/VIOLATIONS AND PENALTIES
Section 4. Player Out of Bounds
Art. 1. A player who steps out of bounds under his/her own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has committed a violation.
A.R. 11. Team A sets a double screen for A1, who, in attempting to come across the freethrow lane, is legally obstructed by offensive and defensive players so that A1 leaves the playing court under the basket, circles around, returns to the playing court and then is the first to receive the ball. RULING: A violation has been committed by A1 for leaving the playing court and then becomes the first player to touch the ball upon return.

From a bulletin posted on the NCAA website:

http://www.ncaa.org/champadmin/baske.../bulletin1.pdf

A violation has not been committed when a player goes out of bounds, as permitted by Rule
7-5.8.a, does not receive a pass from his teammate making the throw in, returns to the playing
court, and is the first to touch the ball upon his return.

PLAY
A1 is in control of the ball, and A3 is positioned in the corner of the frontcourt. A3 moves toward
the end line and then leaves the playing court under his own volition. A1 passes the ball to
A2. A3 returns to the playing court a) after or b) before A2 was in possession of the passed ball
from A1.
RULING
In (a), A3 has committed a violation since he was the first to touch the ball upon his return to the
playing court. In b), since A3 returned to the playing court before A2 was in possession of A1’s
pass, he was not the first to touch the ball and A3 has not committed a violation.

In your play the ball went from A1 to A2 back to A1 so it is a violation under NCAA rules.

[ChuckElias]

Not only is this a T in high school, but it's a freakin' POE this year. How can varsity officials not even know the POEs for the year?!?!?! Bugs me. FED rulebook, pg. 70.

[Robmoz]

Originally posted by cloverdale
jv game i'm lead on the endline...A1 is oob and given the ball and throws in to A2 at top of key...A1 stays oob and runs behind backboard reenters the court on opposite side to recieve the pass from A2...I tee him up and we go from there...coach yells endline violation not tech...now i'm second guessing wether I have the right call and at half time my partner says violation, the 2 varsity refs I ask one doesn't know for sure the other says tech but nobody calls it...later in the rule book all i can find is 10-3-3...is this the correct application, if not what is the right rule,or was it the wrong call...I felt that if it was a live ball situation and an offensive player used the oob lines to get away from the defense to come back on the court to recieve the pass would be a player tech according to this rule...

This may be true in past years but it had better start getting called this year (POE).

[bgtg19]

Just adding to what Chuck and Rob are saying: as a POE this year, it is our responsibility to start calling these technical fouls (even though, as has been discussed in other threads, many of us would prefer that it be a violation rather than a T).

Tuesday night, boys varsity, I called a T for going out of bounds when two teammates were running a crossing pattern (from wing to wing) underneath the basket. One player, to avoid running into his teammate, ran WAY wide (around me, in fact!). When I reported the foul, the scorer motioned me over and asked what I was calling. I explained. The timer asked if it was a new rule. "No, but it *is* a point of emphasis this year." At least both coaches knew and understood!

It wasn't the situation that started this thread, but let me just remind the less experienced officials who are reading this: If A1 has the ball at her/his disposal for a designated spot throw in, and any other player from Team A steps out of bounds before the throw in ends (or is it on the release? - I need to go find my book...), *that* is a violation.

Happy officiating!

[cloverdale]

bgtg19...thanks for the reply...can you give me by rule how it becomes a violation because the ball has not been thrown in? please read my thread called more ?'s on oob T.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by bgtg19


It wasn't the situation that started this thread, but let me just remind the less experienced officials who are reading this: If A1 has the ball at her/his disposal for a designated spot throw in, and any other player from Team A steps out of bounds before the throw in ends (or is it on the release? - I need to go find my book...), *that* is a violation.

What he is talking about is this: 9-2-12 ...No teammate of the thrower shall be out of bounds after a designated-spot throw-in begins.

I wrote a thread on this last summer. I think that he is oversimplifying it. If the teammate merely steps OOB somewhere and stays there (ie he steps out to fake a switch with the thrower or really tries to switch but his teammate pulls away and doesn't allow it), that is a violation, but if that kid runs OOB down a sideline or endline in order to gain an advantage (ie get open to receive the throw-in pass) then I believe that action falls under the purview of 10-3-3 and a T should be called.

Opinions on this differed. I said to see the whole play and judge the player's entire action, then make the call. Others said to call a violation right away when the kid first steps OOB.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

What he is talking about is this: 9-2-12 ...No teammate of the thrower shall be out of bounds after a designated-spot throw-in begins.

I wrote a thread on this last summer. I think that he is oversimplifying it. If the teammate merely steps OOB somewhere and stays there (ie he steps out to fake a switch with the thrower or really tries to switch but his teammate pulls away and doesn't allow it), that is a violation, but if that kid runs OOB down a sideline or endline in order to gain an advantage (ie get open to receive the throw-in pass) then I believe that action falls under the purview of 10-3-3 and a T should be called.

Opinions on this differed. I said to see the whole play and judge the player's entire action, then make the call. Others said to call a violation right away when the kid first steps OOB.

Gee, why don't you call the violation and the "T" too? According to you, you've got rules justification to do so.

Do we call travelling violations when they occur? Or do we wait until we see how many steps that the person with the ball takes?

If there are any delayed violations, the rules will spell them out- just like they do on FT's. Otherwise, when a violation occurs, you call it.

Lah me. You're making up your very own rules again, Nevada. Bad advice for newbies reading posts here.