Sportsmanship and language

[Rich]

Visiting team is getting thumped. It was something like 49-14 at the half. Just before halftime, there's a foul down at the visiting team end -- a trip, which I call. No problems, it just sets up what happened next.

I call the foul as the lead, switch, and the ball eventually heads down to the other end of the court where I'm, again, the lead.

Visiting player drives the lane and attempts to do a jump stop (picks the ball up, jumps off one foot, and lands one foot at a time). Partner (T) calls the travel -- I was RIGHT behind him had he not gotten this one.

I'm now the trail at the other end of the court opposite the tables, when I hear "That's bullsh1t!" in a not-quiet-voice. Even with a decent crowd, this was QUITE loud. I looked up just in time to see that the head coach was the one who screamed this.

OK, let's play the game of what happened next....there's more, but I'm late for an appointment. I'll finish this later with a reply to the thread.

--Rich

[Adam]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Visiting team is getting thumped. It was something like 49-14 at the half. Just before halftime, there's a foul down at the visiting team end -- a trip, which I call. No problems, it just sets up what happened next.

I call the foul as the lead, switch, and the ball eventually heads down to the other end of the court where I'm, again, the lead.

Visiting player drives the lane and attempts to do a jump stop (picks the ball up, jumps off one foot, and lands one foot at a time). Partner (T) calls the travel -- I was RIGHT behind him had he not gotten this one.

I'm now the trail at the other end of the court opposite the tables, when I hear "That's bullsh1t!" in a not-quiet-voice. Even with a decent crowd, this was QUITE loud. I looked up just in time to see that the head coach was the one who screamed this.

OK, let's play the game of what happened next....there's more, but I'm late for an appointment. I'll finish this later with a reply to the thread.

--Rich

I'm pretty sure he got himself whacked, and then cried about getting a cheap technical. What I'm not sure about is whether he earned himself a seat in the parking lot.

AW

[lrpalmer3]

Last night I watched as my partner got into heated discussions with both coaches (although one was after a T).

I told him after the game that he shouldn't get rattled like that, no matter what the coach says. Hopefully you calmly game him the T.

[thumpferee]

I'm curious about the jump stop-traveling call.

Driving to the basket, jumps off one foot, lands with one foot first then the other, has no pivot foot. Did the player pivot? Or, was the traveling called after the jump stop? Or am I invisioning this wrong?

Anyway, a T is definately in order for the coach!

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by thumpferee
I'm curious about the jump stop-traveling call.

Driving to the basket, jumps off one foot, lands with one foot first then the other, has no pivot foot. Did the player pivot? Or, was the traveling called after the jump stop? Or am I invisioning this wrong?

If he jumps off one foot, he must land simultaneously with both feet for a legal jump stop. If he lands with one foot and then the other it was traveling.

Curiously enough, this is also now being called traveling in the NBA. I was flipping channels last night and heard the commentator say that Ronnie Nunn, supervisor of officials would be joioning them. So I hung around and watched. They showed the same play that Rich describes, performed by several players including Lebron James. Each time, the official rolled a travel.

Good for them, and us!

[gordon30307]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Visiting team is getting thumped. It was something like 49-14 at the half. Just before halftime, there's a foul down at the visiting team end -- a trip, which I call. No problems, it just sets up what happened next.

I call the foul as the lead, switch, and the ball eventually heads down to the other end of the court where I'm, again, the lead.

Visiting player drives the lane and attempts to do a jump stop (picks the ball up, jumps off one foot, and lands one foot at a time). Partner (T) calls the travel -- I was RIGHT behind him had he not gotten this one.

I'm now the trail at the other end of the court opposite the tables, when I hear "That's bullsh1t!" in a not-quiet-voice. Even with a decent crowd, this was QUITE loud. I looked up just in time to see that the head coach was the one who screamed this.

OK, let's play the game of what happened next....there's more, but I'm late for an appointment. I'll finish this later with a reply to the thread.

--Rich

If this is the third or early in fourth quarter Tee him. If there are one or two minutes left in the game especially with a running clock I might be inclined to ignore this just to get the game over with.

[Jurassic Referee]

Absolutely gotta be a "T". There's no doubt that you got the call right. Now he's not questioning your call- he's questioning your cojones.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by gordon30307
If this is the third or early in fourth quarter Tee him. If there are one or two minutes left in the game especially with a running clock I might be inclined to ignore this just to get the game over with.

What if it's in the first or second quarters? What about overtime? What else don't you call at the end of the game just to "get the game over with" - flagrant fouls, intentional fouls, shooting fouls, timeouts?

You make the same call the same way from beginning to end. That's your job. The coach's intent and behavior would be the same regardless of when he said this, so your reaction and call should be the same regardless of when he said this.

[BktBallRef]

I would ignore it unless I KNEW it was directed at me or my partners.

[David B]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Visiting team is getting thumped. It was something like 49-14 at the half. Just before halftime, there's a foul down at the visiting team end -- a trip, which I call. No problems, it just sets up what happened next.

I call the foul as the lead, switch, and the ball eventually heads down to the other end of the court where I'm, again, the lead.

Visiting player drives the lane and attempts to do a jump stop (picks the ball up, jumps off one foot, and lands one foot at a time). Partner (T) calls the travel -- I was RIGHT behind him had he not gotten this one.

I'm now the trail at the other end of the court opposite the tables, when I hear "That's bullsh1t!" in a not-quiet-voice. Even with a decent crowd, this was QUITE loud. I looked up just in time to see that the head coach was the one who screamed this.

OK, let's play the game of what happened next....there's more, but I'm late for an appointment. I'll finish this later with a reply to the thread.

--Rich

Well, I'm sure as Paul Harvey would say "the rest of the story" is that the coach got his T and his seatbelt.

The question would be did the coach get to finish the game? I know Rich isn't going to put up with much of anything from a coach especially after he gets T'd.

And I can hear the coach whining about "what did I do?" "I didn't direct anything to you etc etc.,"

Sorry coach but profanity if not allowed especially when everyone in the gym can hear it.

Someone said they might ignore it?? Don't even mention that - he just questioned your integrity and that is NEVER allowed.

Thanks
David

[tjones1]

Whack! If he's going to question a call or whatever using that language, it's going to cost him.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Unsportsmanlike Conduct for language, you gotta T.

I'd do it because he earned it but just suppose if you didn't and you were being observed, what would your observer say?

[Rich]

Originally posted by David B

Well, I'm sure as Paul Harvey would say "the rest of the story" is that the coach got his T and his seatbelt.

The question would be did the coach get to finish the game? I know Rich isn't going to put up with much of anything from a coach especially after he gets T'd.

And I can hear the coach whining about "what did I do?" "I didn't direct anything to you etc etc.,"

Sorry coach but profanity if not allowed especially when everyone in the gym can hear it.

Someone said they might ignore it?? Don't even mention that - he just questioned your integrity and that is NEVER allowed.

Thanks
David

(1) This is a travel. A jump stop like this requires both feet to land simultaneously. Not only did they land separately, they landed like he was taking two distinct steps.

(2) My partner whacked the head coach. I turned to look at my partner just in time to see it. My partner takes about as much as me in situations like this. Like I said a few weeks ago, I remember one technical in about 10 years -- and this year I've been on the floor for THREE coach technicals, one of which I handed out myself.

The rest of the story is that it took great restraint after this to not show him the parking lot. After the technical, the coach gave my partner the big two handed "BS" wave and my partner told me that he kept control, although he had to make himself stay in control. Next time down the floor I called a foul on the same team for a two handed displacment on the post player receiving a pass. The coach started clapping and yelling "Great defense. Great defense."

I was annoyed, but I then realized the coach was just making a fool of himself and the most professional thing to do was not engage him further unless the coach really stepped over the line in which case he would get the second technical from me, which we had discussed at halftime.

The opposing coaches couldn't understand what this guy's problem was, either. It was 49-14 at the half.

After the technical, the coach sat down and the half ended. We talked at halftime about whether I should remind him of the seatbelt rule, and we decided that we would only address the loss of the box if the coach stood again -- we didn't want to fuel the fire. Of course, I had to sit him down the first time down the floor and this was met with another two handed BS gesture to my back. Again, it was pretty clear who was making a fool of himself -- and I didn't even know about this until after the game ended.

Ignore it? Never crossed my mind. Talk about igniting a bigger fire....

--Rich

[gordon30307]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

What if it's in the first or second quarters? What about overtime? What else don't you call at the end of the game just to "get the game over with" - flagrant fouls, intentional fouls, shooting fouls, timeouts?

You make the same call the same way from beginning to end. That's your job. The coach's intent and behavior would be the same regardless of when he said this, so your reaction and call should be the same regardless of when he said this.

I'm only addressing the issue at hand flagrant fouls etc. are entirley different. Please note I specifically said with 1 or 2 minutes remaining and with a running clock "I may or may not here that remark." We're talking about words. You know sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.

As an aside I recall a similar situation lopsided score etc. losing coach behaving himself the whole game made a disparaging mark directed toward me and I'm not sure if anyone else heard it. I said "Coach I didn't hear what you said do you mind repeating it?" If he did I would have Teed him he didn't and I had no more problems. He knew I gave him a pass and that he was out of line.

[Edited by gordon30307 on Dec 31st, 2004 at 03:48 PM]

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Next time down the floor I called a foul on the same team for a two handed displacment on the post player receiving a pass. The coach started clapping and yelling "Great defense. Great defense."

= 2nd direct technical foul on the head coach and disqualification.
You're nicer than I am.

[Edited by Nevadaref on Dec 31st, 2004 at 09:35 PM]