Ron Artest

[BktBallRef]

Artest was shoved in the face by a follow player but didn't react. Yet, when he has a drink thrown on him, he goes into the stands after a fan. That's bull$hit. And I don't know what video you saw but I saw him throwing punches at the fan he went after. He nails the kid in the black t-shirt and blue jeans. The only thing that stopped him from pummeling him was the fact that he wast grabbed from behind, and stopped.

Artest was a time bomb. He was just a matter of time before he went off. Should his past record be considered in his punishment? Damn right it should. Ever heard of three strikes? He's bad for the game of basketball and I'm glad he's gone.

KUDOS TO STERN!!!!!!

[Edited by BktBallRef on Nov 22nd, 2004 at 10:41 AM]

[ChuckElias]

I saw the CEO of the Pistons on ESPN this morning and he said something to effect of: "This is terrible. Nothing like this has ever happened in our league before and we have to make sure it doesn't happen again."

But that is such a load of manure. It happened a lot, and only about 30-35 years ago. Anybody read Earl Strom's book? He talks about melees between fans and players on a regular basis. Heck, he talks about melees between fans and officials.

Originally posted by totalnewbie
But I would be surprised if they didnt take action in the off season to alter the layout of the floor seats, move the chairs back, or dictate some ajustments to the proximity of the fans to the players.

How about we adjust the proximity of the fans by putting a big cage around the playing court and benches? You know, like they used to do in every arena b/c the fans threw stuff and got into fights with the players? The way it was when basketball players were routinely called "cagers" for exactly that reason.

Never happened before. Please.

[Junker]

I actually was flipping channels and saw the whole situation unfold. It was the longest portion of an NBA game I've watched in ten years, too bad it was like a trainwreck, I didn't want to watch, but couldn't turn away. My thoughts actually go to the foul. If you watch the foul that Wallace was upset about from the rear view (which hasn't been shown a lot on the highlights) Artest goes after the ball with one hand and his other hand grabs Wallace's shoulder pretty hard. I thought the officials would have been more than correct in calling the foul flagrant, but again, as we always say, I wasn't there. It looked to me like a little more than a "hard foul". That being said, the rest of the situation was horrible. the fans and players are both to blame. I'm glad the NBA is taking a hard stance on this incident. Hopefully some good can come out of this ugly incident and sportsmanship will get some press and it will help the rest of us out.

[Ref in PA]

I think some of the Hockey fans decided to go to a basketball game. They reacted just like a hockey crowd. Beer is thrown all the time at those contest as well as other things.

I think the NBA needs to rethink fan access to the game. Lots of valid points points have been made in this discussion.

Wallace deserves blame for his actions and the penalty should be weighted because those actions served to further incite the fan reaction.

Artest and teammates deserve blame to reacting to fans.

Detroit fans/team deserve blame for the action of the fans. I think the next two contests between the Pacers and Pistons in Detroit should be without fans in attendence.

When lawsuits come, NBA, Piston management should also be equal partners in the lawsuit if a player is named. NBA for providing a venue that could get out of hand and the Piston Management for inadequate security.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
I saw the CEO of the Pistons on ESPN this morning and he said something to effect of: "This is terrible. Nothing like this has ever happened in our league before and we have to make sure it doesn't happen again."

But that is such a load of manure. It happened a lot, and only about 30-35 years ago. Anybody read Earl Strom's book? He talks about melees between fans and players on a regular basis. Heck, he talks about melees between fans and officials.

How about we adjust the proximity of the fans by putting a big cage around the playing court and benches? You know, like they used to do in every arena b/c the fans threw stuff and got into fights with the players? The way it was when basketball players were routinely called "cagers" for exactly that reason.

Never happened before. Please.

Not many of us remember back that far, and the NBA has had their marketing machine humming along nicely for years to paint themselves as a kid-friendly form of entertainment. And it's paid off big for them: the league, the teams, the players, shoe, clothing and apparel makers, retail outlets, media outlets.

I bet you a nickel (I have 1 left ) that the first calls David Stern got was from the CEOs of Walmart, Nike, Sears, Disney and Reebok.

[Goose]

Since I have either ref'ed or played hoops for almost 40 years now, I can't remember for the life of me ever seeing a basketball referee go into the stands to retaliate, or should I say, "defend his honor".

Why is it that we officials are held to a standard that says walk away at all costs, but yet the players and fans are not.

Ohh, he was only defending himself...or if I got beer thrown on me by a fan, I'd go after that fan. Well I'm here to tell all of you, that I have had water thrown in my face and been pelted by cans thrown by fans as an official and never once went into the stands after them. I would venture a guess that if a ref did that, he would not be working any longer unless it was making Pizza's. There would not be any suspension, fine or any of this pandering, they would be gone for good. But, the athlete is a different breed I guess. They are allowed to get away with murder (pardon the pun....no wait, oops!) and get a suspension only to return to active duty. Talk about a two way street!!

What also was amusing was to hear all the ex-players and even the players union bemoan the fact that the players are always verbally abused by the fans. Oh, really? Why not talk to a few game officials and get their opinion on being verbally abused by the fans and the players! What a bunch of babies!

Basically, I'll side with the others that say at no time is any player justified in going into the stands, unless it is to hug his mother or father.

IMO, Artest is a bad apple and the league has gotten what it deserved for not coming down harder on him and the Pacers over the years. What boggles my mind is that if I owned a business I surely would not put up with his behavior, and neither should the league.

Overall, similar to the NFL, the NBA are hypocrites in the sense that they have embraced all this ganster rap stuff, and put up with a lot of crappy behavior all in the name of ratings. Only now, it is coming back to haunt them. Personally, I'd like to see the NBA just go away. The college game is far and away a better game, and for better or worse, the NBA is merely headed down the same path as the NHL. Does anyone really watch this stuff anymore?

goose

[Jimgolf]

Just some random thoughts on the fight:

- The foul was cheap because the Pacers were up 15 with 0:45 to go in the game, not because it was from behind or because there was no play on the ball. This violates an unwritten NBA law that says you do not maim your fellow millionaires during the regular season if the game is out of reach.

- Ron Artest is paid several million a year to not go into the stands. The NBA has an obligation to train new players about this, not just on how to get out of paternity suits.

- Artest pretty much went after the first guy he saw laughing at him, not anyone that threw anything at him.

- Artest didn't fight the 6'9 230 guy that pushed him and threw a towel at him, but went after the 5'9' 165 guy that was laughing at him. What does this say about him?

- Detroit Piston security should have gotten into better position before Artest went into the stands.

- This is not unique, it is similar to old-time baseball games, where players frequently went into the stands after fans. The game will survive.

- It is unfortunate that in our society, it is considered manly to respond to disrespect with violence. In the Ravenswood Project where Ron Artest grew up, this may have been a necessary survival skill. But he's not in the projects anymore, and his livelihood depends on him realizing this.

- For a people that frequently refer to ourselves as Christian, it is amazing how few of us ever turn the other cheek, or even consider this before lashing out.

- Be prepared for the idiot fans in the next few weeks to be baiting players in the games you work.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Jimgolf
- Detroit Piston security should have gotten into better position before Artest went into the stands.

Here's the problem with that. With under a minute to go in the game, security had moved into the concourses in preparation for the fans to leave the arena. I'm sure something will be changed with regards to this in the future.

[Indy_Ref]

I am from Indiana...and I am a Pacers fan...so, I wanted to get that out of the way first. However, I am NOT a fan of the NBA. I simply cannot stand the league...or their so-called game!

Here are my opinions:

Artest: Got what he deserved. This was bound to happen sooner or later. He has a good heart, but he also has a screw loose and needs psychiatric help. NO PLAYER should ever leave the court no matter what!!!! He better pray that no criminal charges are filed against him.

Jackson: Got what he deserved...even if he was trying to help defend his teammate.

O'Neal: Got shafted! He never left the freaking floor with the intent on fighting. He did all his "damage" while protecting himself ON THE FLOOR.

Johnson: Got shafted! He too never left the floor! He only tried to defend his teammate in front of their own bench!

Wallace: Made out like a bandit! His incitement of the crowd...the situation...and his OVER-reaction from a common foul...started the whole fracas. HOW DOES THIS GUY ONLY GET 6 GAMES!?!?!?!?!?!? What about the foul he gave Artest a few plays earlier on the Pacers end of the court? Artest, to his credit, did nothing.

Detroit Security: So woeful that not even words can describe how bad they were. I think I read that there were only 8 uniformed policemen in the Palace?? (Maybe enough for a small college D-I game!) Their biggest concern seemed to be trying to threaten the Pacers players with pepper spray. Gentlemen, what about the several hundred out of control fans that you don't seem to be paying attention to!?!?!?!?!

Detroit Pistons Team: Made out like bandits! The one opponent who is the biggest threat to their Eastern Conference Title will now be severly under-manned for the remainder of the year.

Detroit Pistons Organization: They should incur huge fines & several lawsuits from this mess.

NBA: Brace yourselves for the coming lawsuits!

Officials: Exonerated! What else could they have done? Perhaps Garretson & Donaghy could have come in a bit sooner to try to get players separated...but I think they did about all they could do. I don't blame them ONE BIT!

[rockyroad]

First off, to IndyRef, O'Neal got what he deserved also. The punches that got him in trouble were the ones he threw at the fan who had already been pumelled for coming on the floor, was visibly dazed, and was being grabbed by security - then O'Neal comes flying in there and landed a haymaker with his entire body weight and momentum behind it? He could've killed the guy - O'Neal got what he deserved!

Also, anyone besides me thinking the NBA should reconsider the selling of alcoholic beverages at the stadiums? Hmmm - no drunk Pistons fans, maybe no fight?

Lastly, I heard some talking head on ESPN radio this morning bemoaning the fact the Pacers got 134 games of suspensions, while Pistons only got 9...for the life of me, I can't think of anything more ludicrous to be whining about - which of the Piston players was beating on fans?

[jritchie]

As far as alcohol, after a kentucky player was killed a few years ago in an accident due to alcohol they have quit selling it at games!! it has been a lot better at all football and basketball games and has cut down on security problems at these games as well....

i know NBA gets a lot of money for selling alcohol during these games, but should think about stopping sales after halftime or something to reduce the amount of time these fans have to get loaded>>>>

[Indy_Ref]

Originally posted by rockyroad
First off, to IndyRef, O'Neal got what he deserved also. The punches that got him in trouble were the ones he threw at the fan who had already been pumelled for coming on the floor, was visibly dazed, and was being grabbed by security - then O'Neal comes flying in there and landed a haymaker with his entire body weight and momentum behind it? He could've killed the guy - O'Neal got what he deserved!

Sorry, rock...but any fan coming onto the floor to participate in a fiasco such as what happened deserves everything he gets! Plus, I have the whole thing...and the breakdown in a file. There is NO way you're going to tell me that the fan that took it on the jaw was being restrained by security! What are you looking at??!?! Actually, someone from security is about to help the guy up...NOT GET HIM OFF THE FLOOR! That so-called security guy was just standing there while the whole melee was going on! Also let me remind you that the guy O'Neal hit had just tried to take Artest down with his drunk buddy in the Pistons uniform.

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by Indy_Ref

Sorry, rock...but any fan coming onto the floor to participate in a fiasco such as what happened deserves everything he gets! Plus, I have the whole thing...and the breakdown in a file. There is NO way you're going to tell me that the fan that took it on the jaw was being restrained by security! What are you looking at??!?! Actually, someone from security is about to help the guy up...NOT GET HIM OFF THE FLOOR! That so-called security guy was just standing there while the whole melee was going on! Also let me remind you that the guy O'Neal hit had just tried to take Artest down with his drunk buddy in the Pistons uniform.

So if security is "about to help the guy up", what need was there for O'Neal to come in and belt the guy the way he did? O'Neal got what he deserved...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Indy_Ref

O'Neal: Got shafted! He never left the freaking floor with the intent on fighting. He did all his "damage" while protecting himself ON THE FLOOR.

You may change your mind after seeing this clip. It's got a good shot of O'Neal OFF OF THE FLOOR fighting.

Click the link, and then click on "Sports Center breaks down the brawl" on the left-hand side.

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/.../index?1927343

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

You may change your mind after seeing this clip. It's got a good shot of O'Neal OFF OF THE FLOOR fighting.

Click the link, and then click on "Sports Center breaks down the brawl" on the left-hand side.

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/.../index?1927343

Not only that but when he blindisded the fan on the court, he was NOT DEFENDING HIMSELF. He races across the floor and blindsided the guy. The guy was no way near him and not threatening to him.

And yes, he was in the stands!

And Steven Jackson, he should have received the same suspension as Artest, or worse. He wasn't even provoked like Artest was. Yet he still chose to dive into the fracas instead or trying to get his teammate out of the stands, like Reggie Miller was doing. Instead of being part of the solution, he becamse part of the problem.