Ron Artest

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by blindzebra
There is no excuse for going into the stands. Artest attacked a guy HOLDING a cup, he could not see who threw it, he just attacked.

Even if he knew who threw it, he is running past and over women, kids and innocent men to get to the idiot who threw it.

If a fan comes after him on the court fine, knock him out, that's self defense. Trampling and assaulting twenty innocent people to get to an idiot is NOT self defense.

Put me in this camp.

[mick]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
We're gonna punish everyone in the whole damn state. Everybody will be fined! And there's gonna have to be a moat built around the court at the Palace, just like the soccer stadiums in South America.

Have you seen the films of today's South Carolina/Clemson game yet? Geeze, you go to a college football game and a pro basketball game breaks out.

Didn't see it yet, JR.

We already have a Great Moat around 6 sides: East, East, West, South , North and North.

mick

[Dan_ref]

My take: there's a brick wall separating players & fans.

A fan runs on the field of play...all bets are off, he deserves whatever he gets.

A player runs into the stands to beat a fan...he deserves whatever he gets. Including "indefinite suspensions" and subsequent civil suits.

Anybody out there willing to trade a black eye for the chance to sue the sh!t out of a 20 year old multimillionaire?

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by dhodges007

I would and do... If I am close and have a chance I get to the one who would retaliate and get him away from the scene. Also saw one example last year in a PAC10 game where the official held the guy from behind so he wouldn't go retaliate. (Makes less paperwork to do )

I agree. If I can separate them early, before it goes crazy, I'll do it. I did it earlier this year in a football game. I simply grabbed one of the two players involved and pushed him as far away as possible. But if an all oyut brawl occurs, stand back and take numbers.

BTW, a player should NEVER EVER go into the stands. I don't care what happens. There were women and children in the area who could have been severely injured by what happened when Artest went into the stands.

[BigGref]

I listened to the end of the game after a Semi-state football game and After the first time I saw the deplorable Detroit fans I said to my father, who was with me. Suspend every single fan for at least 2 games (including the next Pacer/Detroit matchup). The organization deserves to lose 6-7 figures of income from a couple of games, its sad for the other fans, but the lesson WILL be learned that way.

Now as for Artest, Jackson, Oneal, and Ben Wallace. When I was listening to the game I was sure that Rasheed had something to do with it, but to my surprise he acted with great restraint. IMHO Ben Wallace should be suspended for at least 15 games or the same as Artest (whichever was less). He was the originator of the initial contact, he was the instigator of the following "player" debockle, including about 2 situations where it seemed to be under control; when he continued to try and get to Artest just laying on the table, and again when it was almost calm he threw a towel at artest.

Now as for Artest, I think all the way up until getting belted in the face with ice he was guilty only of common foul #4, he showed much restraint, until obviously leaving the confines of the court. This clearly stepped over the line, but if you were pushed violently in the throat, then after only backing up, get cursed at more and see this Ben Wallace coming after you, then moments later getting towel thrown in face, and somehow you are still "calm" and then a few seconds later you get belted with a cup of ice and see the guy who did it 15 feet away. I know what most would do, the problem was Artest just saw the guy with the smart-a$$ smirk who wanted to start something, and he didn't see the 15 foot tall wall that players and officials don't cross. (and that 15 foot wall should actually have consisited of some security guards, so not to be totally metaphorically) Fan on Court, FREE GAME(actually about 5 games)! So Artest jumped over that 15 foot tall wall and landed himself 15 games, add the fan he hit there 5 and the fan on the court 5 more, (if its decided they were justified, just 15)but probably a total of 25 games

I didn't really pay much attention to Jackson but he instigated some stuff on the court (2 games) and came in the defense of his fellow teammate in the stand getting choked and sucker punched, but he slugged a guy or 2 (5-10). So for jackson I say 7-12 games. Jermaine Oneal, never instigated on court stuff, never went in the stands, but he blind sided the on court guy with a slippery right jab, Fair game but still 5 games, if the guy lost a tooth 5 more (5-10).

And again Detroit's stadium and fans should certainly get a hard smack on the back side by the NBA.
Whoooo! just wanted to vent a little, preceeding was just IMHO, I've talked with Stern before and like him very much and am sure that he and his crew will come up with a somewhat righteous decision.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by BigGref
I listened to the end of the game after a Semi-state football game and After the first time I saw the deplorable Detroit fans I said to my father, who was with me. Suspend every single fan for at least 2 games (including the next Pacer/Detroit matchup). The organization deserves to lose 6-7 figures of income from a couple of games, its sad for the other fans, but the lesson WILL be learned that way.

IMHO Ben Wallace should be suspended for at least 15 games or the same as Artest (whichever was less). He was the originator of the initial contact, he was the instigator of the following "player" debockle, including about 2 situations where it seemed to be under control; when he continued to try and get to Artest just laying on the table, and again when it was almost calm he threw a towel at artest.

Now as for Artest, I think all the way up until getting belted in the face with ice he was guilty only of common foul #4, he showed much restraint, until obviously leaving the confines of the court. This clearly stepped over the line, but if you were pushed violently in the throat, then after only backing up, get cursed at more and see this Ben Wallace coming after you, then moments later getting towel thrown in face, and somehow you are still "calm" and then a few seconds later you get belted with a cup of ice and see the guy who did it 15 feet away. I know what most would do, the problem was Artest just saw the guy with the smart-a$$ smirk who wanted to start something, and he didn't see the 15 foot tall wall that players and officials don't cross. (and that 15 foot wall should actually have consisited of some security guards, so not to be totally metaphorically) Fan on Court, FREE GAME(actually about 5 games)! So Artest jumped over that 15 foot tall wall and landed himself 15 games, add the fan he hit there 5 and the fan on the court 5 more, (if its decided they were justified, just 15)but probably a total of 25 games

I didn't really pay much attention to Jackson but he instigated some stuff on the court (2 games) and came in the defense of his fellow teammate in the stand getting choked and sucker punched, but he slugged a guy or 2 (5-10). So for jackson I say 7-12 games. Jermaine Oneal, never instigated on court stuff, never went in the stands, but he blind sided the on court guy with a slippery right jab, Fair game but still 5 games, if the guy lost a tooth 5 more (5-10).

And again Detroit's stadium and fans should certainly get a hard smack on the back side by the NBA.
Whoooo! just wanted to vent a little, preceeding was just

Um, you wouldn't maybe be from Indiana, by any chance, would you? LOL.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
My take: there's a brick wall separating players & fans.

A fan runs on the field of play...all bets are off, he deserves whatever he gets.

A player runs into the stands to beat a fan...he deserves whatever he gets. Including "indefinite suspensions" and subsequent civil suits.

Anybody out there willing to trade a black eye for the chance to sue the sh!t out of a 20 year old multimillionaire?

I'm in this camp, too. Or is this the same camp I was already in?

[BktBallRef]

Same camp. I get the bottom bunk.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Um, you wouldn't maybe be from Indiana, by any chance, would you? LOL.

I agree with BigGref, at least on this one point. After getting shoved in the throat, instead of retaliating, Artest went and sat (laid down) on the scorer's table. His posture seemed kind of smug (laying back, relaxing, as though he'd had nothing to do with it), but at least he was uninvolved in the altercation on the floor.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Same camp. I get the bottom bunk.

Make sure JR's not in the top bunk, in case he runs out of Depends!

[Sal Giaco]

Just as officials have to hold themselves to a higher standard than players and coaches, I believe players have to hold themselves to a higher standard than fans. It's a "catch 22" that officials have been against for so many years - now the players are getting a little taste of it.

I am a baseball umpire and as our crew was exiting the field, I opened up a the gate to let us out and an angry fan pushed the gate back and it closed on my face. Yeah, I felt like going after him but I didn't. Later, our Supervisor contacted the school A.D. and the fan was prohibited from attending the rest of the games for the weekend.

This may not be an apples to apples comparison, but dealing with irrational fans comes with the territory of making millions of dollars. If you think it's not fair, then get out of sports and go sell records. Just my opinion.... yes, I am from the Detroit area.

[Dave Dow]

They are professionals and should act that way..

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by zebraman


You don't blame any of the players at all? You're fine with Artest and Steven Jackson going up into the stands and pounding on people who may or may not have been the ones throwing beer at them? Self defense is one thing, but going into the stands to pound on people? Come on.

Z

I do not blame the players at all. What the fans did is far and away the issue that started the may lay. If the fan never threw anything, no player would have felt compelled to go after them. They sell alcohol to these fools and they let them say whatever comes to mind. I understand that the fans pay money to watch games, but that does not give them the right to behave in any way shape or form because you pay some money. If that was in any other arena, you honestly believe that the person that got hit with a full cup of beer is going to just sit there while you do it?

Sorry Z, you can come up with all this morality crap and "they are professionals" BS all you like. I think if a fan has the balls to throw something at people, they deserve everything they get after that.

Even if Artest was wrong in his actions that gave the two fans no right to enter the court. That gave the fans that were not involved in any way to throw beer on players and coaches. I do not blame the players at all. NOT ONE BIT!!

Peace

[Sal Giaco]

It's obvious the fans started it and are wrong in this situation. But as a player, you need to control your emotions and think before you act.

Regardless if you think Artest was right or wrong for what he did, the bottom line is that the players do NOT go into the crowd regardless of the reason. Artest and the others will pay a serious price for breaking a cardinal rule. Period.

By the way, the same rule applys to officials too. Why should the standard be any different for the players.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by JRutledge

I do not blame the players at all. What the fans did is far and away the issue that started the may lay. If the fan never threw anything, no player would have felt compelled to go after them. They sell alcohol to these fools and they let them say whatever comes to mind. I understand that the fans pay money to watch games, but that does not give them the right to behave in any way shape or form because you pay some money. If that was in any other arena, you honestly believe that the person that got hit with a full cup of beer is going to just sit there while you do it?

Sorry Z, you can come up with all this morality crap and "they are professionals" BS all you like. I think if a fan has the balls to throw something at people, they deserve everything they get after that.

Even if Artest was wrong in his actions that gave the two fans no right to enter the court. That gave the fans that were not involved in any way to throw beer on players and coaches. I do not blame the players at all. NOT ONE BIT!!

Peace

These idiot fans are not sectioned off in their own area you know.

Same scene happens and I'll add a wrinkle. What if on that trip over those 10 rows to this idiot, Artest runs through and steps on a 5 year old and seriously injures or KILLS this kid? There was an elderly woman on the bottom of the pile behind that bench.

Ask yourself this, what if your child, mother or grandmother was injured or killed by one of these players storming after an idiot that threw LIQUID in a plastic cup, would you still think it's okay?