Another Test Question #63

Stripes13 · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 18, 2004, 07:05am

I like to read the question, answer it, then go find the rule or case that supports the answer...I can't find this one...
T/F..A substitute who legally enters the game during a dead-ball period may not be withdrawn during that same dead-ball period..

I think that is T but can't find the rule or case to support..I can find when a player is replaced, he can't return until the next opportunity to substitute...but can't find anything about a player entering the game and then being taken out again.

Still looking..

Jurassic Referee · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 18, 2004, 07:18am

Look at rule 8-3 and case book play 8.2SITUATION. You can do it during a T. The answer is F.

Stripes13 · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 18, 2004, 07:28am

but that is not the same dead ball period the ball has become live during the free throw then became dead again after the attempt was either successful, or obvious that it would not be successful..

I am confused by the question in that it is the same dead-ball period

I have no argument with the 8.2 since the attempted first free throw the ball became live then dead, then the thrower was replaced..second dead ball..

any more suggestions or am I reading too much into this one.

bob jenkins · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 18, 2004, 08:00am

Quote:

Originally posted by Stripes13
I like to read the question, answer it, then go find the rule or case that supports the answer...I can't find this one...

If you can't find it, it's a pretty good indication that the answer is False.

The question is testing whether you read 3-3-4 correctly.

ChuckElias · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Oct 18, 2004, 08:53am

The question is also confusing for some people b/c the rule is exactly the opposite in the NBA. So if you've heard some bobblehead on TV talk about it, you heard the opposite of what FED says.

bperales · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 19, 2004, 07:45am

Greetings everyone,

I've been keeping tabs on the forum for at least a year now, and it's about time I chime in.

Taking a look at rule 3.3.4: "A player who has been replaced...shall not re-enter before the next opportunity to substitute after the clock has been started properly..." From this, I gather that if A6 enters for A1 during a dead ball period, A7 cannot enter for A6 during the same period since the clock has not properly started. Thus, in my opinion, #63 is T.

Let me know if I'm way off base.

Thanks,
Bernard

bob jenkins · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 19, 2004, 08:01am

Quote:

Originally posted by bperales
Greetings everyone,

I've been keeping tabs on the forum for at least a year now, and it's about time I chime in.

Taking a look at rule 3.3.4: "A player who has been replaced...shall not re-enter before the next opportunity to substitute after the clock has been started properly..." From this, I gather that if A6 enters for A1 during a dead ball period, A7 cannot enter for A6 during the same period since the clock has not properly started. Thus, in my opinion, #63 is T.

Let me know if I'm way off base.

Thanks,
Bernard

Okay -- You're way off base.

The rule is saying that A1 in your example cannot return. It says nothing about whether A6 can leave. Combine that with the rule that reads something like, "subs who have reported and who are otherwise eligible shall be allowed to enter ..." and you can see that A6 is allowed to leave.

jritchie · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 19, 2004, 11:12am

just like bob said, ncaa rule 3.4.13 ar 12 says A1 can not come back in, but A6 that came in for A1 to shoot can be replaced by A7 before the clock starts... so a6 came in and shot for a1, then was replaced by a7 all before the clock was started...Legal

golfdesigner · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 19, 2004, 01:55pm

But the question pertains to the same dead ball period. Most of the examples that are being cited are not within the the same dead ball period but the ball has become live [not dead], just that the clock has not been started or run.

jritchie · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 19, 2004, 01:59pm

Quote:

Originally posted by golfdesigner
But the question pertains to the same dead ball period. Most of the examples that are being cited are not within the the same dead ball period but the ball has become live [not dead], just that the clock has not been started or run.

i guess we got out of the realm of the question...when we started shooting freethrows we got out of the same dead ball period....so i guess if you look at it that way, the question would be TRUE!!!

bob jenkins · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 19, 2004, 02:14pm

Quote:

Originally posted by golfdesigner
But the question pertains to the same dead ball period. Most of the examples that are being cited are not within the the same dead ball period but the ball has become live [not dead], just that the clock has not been started or run.

Anser the question on the test any way you want. If you answer it FALSE, you'll be right.

blindzebra · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 19, 2004, 02:30pm

This is simple.

There is nothing in the rules that cover it. They say a removed player must stay out until the next opportunity to sub, but it says zip about subbing for a sub.

Let's say coach A subs A6 a guard for a forward, while coach B counters with B6 a center for a forward. Wouldn't coach A want to change his team on the floor, by replacing A6 with A7 a bigger player?

So as long as the new player is at the table before we would be ready to put the ball in play, what rule is against it?

Jurassic Referee · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 19, 2004, 03:18pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Quote:

Originally posted by golfdesigner
But the question pertains to the same dead ball period. Most of the examples that are being cited are not within the the same dead ball period but the ball has become live [not dead], just that the clock has not been started or run.

Anser the question on the test any way you want. If you answer it FALSE, you'll be right.

Which happens to be exactly what the "NFHS KEY SHEET FOR MANUAL SCORING" for this exam says that the correct answer is- FALSE.

BktBallRef · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Oct 19, 2004, 11:00pm

Gentlemen, listen to what Bob, JR, BZ, and Chuck are telling you. You can't find a rule that says it's illegal because it isn't illegal.

Let's say A1 fouls out. A6 is waiting at the table to replace A2. A6 enters the game while Coach A decides who he wants to replace A1. Coach A sends A7 to the table to replace A1 and also sends A8 to the table to replace A6, as he doesn't like his matchups now. I'm Coach A. If you think it's true, that find me a rule that says I can't do it.

This is perfectly legal.

Nevadaref · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Oct 20, 2004, 05:14am

A good example is:
Team A commits a foul. A6 and B6 enter the game for A1 and B1. Now Coach B requests and is granted a time-out.
During the TO, A7 and B1 report to the scorer before the warning horn.
A7 wishes to replace A6. B1 wishes to replace B2.
The officials correctly allow Team A's substitution and disallow Team B's, since there is no restriction on A6 leaving without playing any time, but B1 must wait for time to come off the clock before re-entering the game.