Unusual Situation

blacktiger · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 12, 2001, 09:36am

I had a different situation last night that I hope never comes up again. I had an off night so I went to watch the varsity girls game at the school that I teach and coach at. One of the officials is one of my best friends and the other one I know through our local association. I went to speak to them at halftime of the JV game and found that the other official (not my friend) was sick with the flu. The sick official started the varsity game by wearing his black officials coat since he was cold. With about 4 minutes left in the first half he says he can't go anymore and that he needs me to take over. I am in sweats and glasses. Luckily another teacher was there who had worked a JH game and had his shirt and whistles in his truck. So I got to work the rest of the game.
During this short game that I worked I found myself to be very uncomfortable since I have had many of the girls in my classes and am very good friends with our girls coach. The only fun part was I got to listen to our student fans kid me a little bit about being out on the floor.
I found one thing to be qutite interesting in that it didn't take long for some of the home team to start yelling at me. I coach boys sports so they may not have known who I was.
Has anybody ever had a similar experience in stepping in as a replacement like this or had to work a game in an emergency where there was a potenial conflict?

ur call · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 12, 2001, 10:15am

I have had to be pulled out of the stands before to work a game but not in your situation. A few years ago I went to a game to watch a friend of mine work on a Saturday afternoon. It was just before X-mas and my wife was shopping so I took my then 1 year old daughter to the game. My friends co-official did not show up for the game and neither coach wanted the JV official to work the game. (I think becuase they knew I was in the stands and it was two good teams and they wanted two officials with experience) I worked the game in sweats and a T-shirt. The home coach had his wife watch my daughter so I could work. It was a great game and we made a big check. In your case if the visiting coach had no problem with it, then I guess it would be OK. I have been out of high school for over 25 years and there is no way I would work a game for them. Their fans would never let me live it down if they lost. Who won your game and did the visiting coach have any problems with you calling the game?

blacktiger · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Jan 12, 2001, 10:29am

The visiting coach(also the AD) has hired me for varsity games at her school, so I would guess she approves of my ability to call games. The AD from my school went to her and asked if it was okay if I worked the rest of the game. We even joked about it a little bit at half time. I really think she was happy to get the other guy off of the floor, he was very sick and not doing a very good job.
The home team (my school) kept a nice comfortable 10 point lead for the whole time I called and ended up winning.

Richard Ogg · #4 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 14, 2001, 02:15am

In my first year I received a phone call at work one day from my school. It turns out that both schools showed the games as "away" so no officials had been scheduled. The two schools discovered the problem when the JV girls showed up at each others place. (These are small schools with no Frosh teams. Game days are GJV-BJV-GV-BV nights.) The two ADs spoke by phone and did not want to cancel the BJV game. (The association was scrambling to provide refs for the 2 varsity games 2 hours later.) They agreed to each "supply" someone to ref and then play the BJV game. The games will be at their site.

So my school asked me to be the "supplied" ref. I phoned my assigner and was approved to take the game (and be paid.) The varsity coach will be the other ref until the refs for the varsity game arrive. So may partner for the first half was the coach; the second half was much smoother with someone who knew where to be, etc.

My son played on the JV team!

I treated the game as any other - just two colors on the court. I was treated fairly by all throughout. However, the score was tied after the first quarter, tied at half, tied after the third quarter, and tied late in the 4th. (Why oh why wasn't it easy! At least my son played very little, but I missed most of whatever he did.)

With about 2 minute to go in the game, our team up by 1 or 2, I am the lead, and our guard drives the lane. Just as he starts his shooting motion ("continuous motion") he is clotheslined. He gets the shot off and the basket goes. I count it and call the foul. The guilty player desperatly wanted it "on the floor" as you might guess. The free throw was made, and that created enough lead that the home team could not recover -- we won -- I don't do our HS!

(I am doing our 8th grade on Monday....)

BTW, my wife taped the game and we looked at that play over a dozen times that night at home. I'm convinced I made the right call.

hoopsrefBC · #5 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 14, 2001, 03:30am

ok here's my point of view

I have coached basketball for about 5-6 season and officiated for 11, so for the beginning few years i did both.

I personally removed myself from any game that there could be an appearance of a conflict. This is not saying i can't do the game this is saying i won't do the game.
Now every rule is made to be broken so this is when i broke my own rule; when the game was exibition, or when the game result couldn't effect any teams in league i was coaching in.

I would never under any circumstance officiate a game involving the school i coached at. If i was in the stands watching the game and noticed only one official i would very quickly done to the corner store getting a coffee.

As an official i have worked a few games by my self. Including a JV game earlier this year. After a heavy snow fall delayed my partners arrival i was asked to start the game by my self, after receiving the ok from everyone i started. The game involved 2 skilled teams and i thought i had the game under control, when my partner finally did show up, he immediately had 3 quick fouls. That not only change the game but brought the coaches involvment in the game to another level. Just what i didn't need at the JV level.

After the game BOTH coaches came up to me seperatly and asked why i had let my partner join the game. They indicated that i had done a better job by my-self. I smiled thanked them and suggested that they wish for more snow in the future.

keep smiling

SH

[Edited by hoopsrefBC on Jan 14th, 2001 at 02:34 AM]

mick · #6 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 14, 2001, 10:28am

Quote:

Originally posted by Richard Ogg

I treated the game as any other - just two colors on the court. I was treated fairly by all throughout....

...With about 2 minute to go in the game, our team up by 1 or 2, I am the lead, and our guard drives the lane. Just as he starts his shooting motion ("continuous motion") he is clotheslined. He gets the shot off and the basket goes. I count it and call the foul. The guilty player desperatly wanted it "on the floor" as you might guess. The free throw was made, and that created enough lead that the home team could not recover -- we won -- I don't do our HS!

(I am doing our 8th grade on Monday....)

Richard,
What would Freud say?
mick

Hawks Coach · #7 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 14, 2001, 11:58am

Every case is different. I have no problem with what BT did - he had no idea he would be asked to ref, the opposing coach knew of the potential conflict and preferred two rrefs who could run the floor and concentrate on the game to either only one ref or one weka ref and one solid ref.

Same with Richard, since they let the opposing varsity coach ref, its obvious they just wanted to play the game with some basketball knowledge on the floor keeping things under control. This is JV, and these guys just need to get on the court and play. Also, a varsity game is almost always made up under these circumstances, while the JV may just miss out. Let em play, ref the game.

Hoops, your post shows exactly why you shouldn't go out of your way to avoid these situations. You know that you have had weaker partners. What if that weaker partner who does a poor job in tandem is forced to do the game alone? It would be best if you are on the floor (with the other coach aware that there may be a conflict). If you do a fair job, you know it is better for the kids on the court (and that is what this is about).

My experience has been that refs are refs first. In 99% of the cases, they will do the game in as unbiased a manner as possible. I think the coach who has the connection to the ref actually has as much or more to concerned about, in that many refs will overcompensate to ensure that they do not favor their own squad.

hoopsrefBC · #8 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 14, 2001, 05:09pm

Hawks coach,

I have done a few game in which i my position as a coach was used by the losing coach as a justification for their lose. (its amazing what you can here when the officials change room is next to the visiting teams locker room.)

I wish all coaches thought the way you did.

Question for you...

Here's my situation this year. 3 years ago i coached a grade 9 boys team. This year those player are in grade 12. About 7 of the player are on the senior team. I personally have decided to not work games involving this team because of my past association with the players.

As a coach of a visiting team. If you were to see an official who you know (is or did)coach player(s) on the opposition team officiating the game what would you think ?. Now add in that its a league game and that the winner goes on to the regionals. Does you opinion change? Why?

keep smiling
SH

[Edited by hoopsrefBC on Jan 14th, 2001 at 04:11 PM]

Hawks Coach · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 15, 2001, 12:44am

hoops - I'm not questioning your basic rule of thumb in any way. Best to avoid the conflicts when accepting assignments. I'm merely referring to your thoughts that you would avoid substituting (probably should have used the quote from that section to make that clear!)

I would never under any circumstance officiate a game involving the school I coached at. If I was in the stands watching the game and noticed only one official I would very quickly done to the corner store getting a coffee.

As for your question, I would hope you would avoid reffing varsity kids that you coached at a lower level, because it is only fair to both sides. I do regard JV as somewhat different, but I would not expect you to accept an assignment to a JV game for kids you had in 6 or 7th grade unless it was to keep the game from being cancelled. If you were beckoned from the stands, you should ensure that the opposing coach accepts you as a ref. If he wants only one ref rather than have you, so be it. I would accept you and assume that you are an individual with some integrity and not a part of a cynical plot to influence the reffing.

As for the coach blaming you for a loss in the visiting locker room, I am assuming his players also heard that, which will come back to haunt him. The moment I begin blaming you folks for losses, my losses are going to come much more frequently because 1) my team and I now have an excuse to lose and 2) we will fail to fix our problems since we don't know why we lost the game (it wasn't the refs!).

ScottParks · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 15, 2001, 09:26am

Yes, this happens quite a bit in the rec league, but happened over Christmas break also.

I went to watch my son play in a freshman tournament at a local HS in a different school district. The games were being officiated by two football coaches from the school who had no experience in officiating. When I asked them if the had officials, they said the association assigned them no-one and they needed help. I agreed to help them and wound up calling 12 games in 2 days. 2 of the games I called involved my son's team. I told the organizers that if they had anyone else, they should call the game, but no one else was available and they asked me to call them. I said I would only if both coaches understood the situation and agreed to me calling.

The games went well, with my son's team winning one and losing one (by one point) to their archrival.

My thoughts were that having at least one official on the floor with some help is better than the alternative and the coaches agreed.

Fortunately (or unfortunately) my son did not play much due to a sore knee (which he broke the next week)... I just did not realize he was out.

BktBallRef · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 15, 2001, 11:02am

Quote:

Originally posted by parkssa
Fortunately (or unfortunately) my son did not play much due to a sore knee (which he broke the next week)... I just did not realize he was out.

Ooooh! How do you break your knee? How is he?

williebfree · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 15, 2001, 11:49am

Quote:

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
hoops - I'm not questioning your basic rule of thumb in any way. Best to avoid the conflicts when accepting assignments. I'm merely referring to your thoughts that you would avoid substituting (probably should have used the quote from that section to make that clear!)
...
As for the coach blaming you for a loss in the visiting locker room, I am assuming his players also heard that, which will come back to haunt him. The moment I begin blaming you folks for losses, my losses are going to come much more frequently because 1) my team and I now have an excuse to lose and 2) we will fail to fix our problems since we don't know why we lost the game (it wasn't the refs!).

Well said Coach!

ScottParks · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 15, 2001, 11:54am

According to the surgeon, the quad muscle was too strong for the bone at the top of the tibia. The muscle pulled where the patella tendon attaches to the top of the tibia and broke it in half and separated the top of the tibia from the rest of the leg. Much swelling, much pain and 4 screws later the doctors expect a full recovery. The really strange thing is he was preparing to jump in warmups and crumpled to the floor. He said he thought he broke it but the trainers didn't.... No one believed the xrays.

blacktiger · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 16, 2001, 09:27am

Here is another twist to my original post. On Saturday, I got a call from our assignor. He needed a fill in for a game on Monday. The guy that I filled for in the middle of the game was now in the hospital and needed a replacement for Monday. Another twist was that it was at the school that was the visiting team at my school of employment when I came out of the stands.