Fouled out, not really

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

I feel like I have a hangover, and I haven't had any brownpops in weeks!!! Good grief...

[/B]

Hey, I'm working on my MTD Sr.(patent pending) response.You just keep writing a whole buncha things down until everybody gets confused. Wait 'til I bring up the "cone of correctibility" next. [/B][/QUOTE]

Or the "cone of connectibility"?

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

It wasn't "charged" wrongly, it was recorded in the book wrongly. #45 should have fouled out rather than #5. That's also the explanation of the "definite knowledge." Boy, I don't get to correct you very often. Guess I'm not as obsequious and sycophantic as some folks think.

B5 actually committed 3 fouls to this point according to Nevada. B5's disqualifying 5th foul with 3:35 left should have been charged to B45. Obviously, the FOURTH foul charged to B5 in the book was wrongfully charged somewhere along the line. From Nevada's description, can you tell me what B player actually should have been charged with B5's fourth foul instead of B5?

Iow, the scorer made TWO mistakes that had to be corrected: (1) charging B5 with a 4th foul somewhere along the line that B5 did not commit (2) wrongfully charging B5 with a foul that was actually committed by B45 with 3:35 to go, and thus disqualifying B5 with 5 fouls. Were BOTH mistakes corrected? Or just one?

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jun 3rd, 2004 at 10:46 AM] [/B][/QUOTE]

JR one of the 3 quick fouls #45 had in the 3rd quarter was recorded on #5.

At half #5 has 3, #45 has 1.

At the end of the third the book SHOULD read #5 THREE, #45 FOUR fouls, it does not, the book has #5 with FOUR and #45 with THREE fouls.

At 3:35 of the 4th quarter #5 fouls, and the book SHOULD have #5 with FOUR fouls and #45 with FOUR fouls, but they have #5 with FIVE and #45 with THREE.

When #45 fouls at the end of the quarter it should be his FIFTH foul, the only thing we don't know was which of the,"Three quick fouls on #45," was wrongly recorded on #5.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by blindzebra

B5 actually committed 3 fouls to this point according to Nevada. B5's disqualifying 5th foul with 3:35 left should have been charged to B45. Obviously, the FOURTH foul charged to B5 in the book was wrongfully charged somewhere along the line. From Nevada's description, can you tell me what B player actually should have been charged with B5's fourth foul instead of B5?

Iow, the scorer made TWO mistakes that had to be corrected: (1) charging B5 with a 4th foul somewhere along the line that B5 did not commit (2) wrongfully charging B5 with a foul that was actually committed by B45 with 3:35 to go, and thus disqualifying B5 with 5 fouls. Were BOTH mistakes corrected? Or just one?

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jun 3rd, 2004 at 10:46 AM]

JR one of the 3 quick fouls #45 had in the 3rd quarter was recorded on #5.

At half #5 has 3, #45 has 1.

At the end of the third the book SHOULD read #5 THREE, #45 FOUR fouls, it does not, the book has #5 with FOUR and #45 with THREE fouls.

At 3:35 of the 4th quarter #5 fouls, and the book SHOULD have #5 with FOUR fouls and #45 with FOUR fouls, but they have #5 with FIVE and #45 with THREE.

When #45 fouls at the end of the quarter it should be his FIFTH foul, the only thing we don't know was which of the,"Three quick fouls on #45," was wrongly recorded on #5.
[/B][/QUOTE]That actually sounds reasonable to me.

Does that mean that I have to quit arguing now though, just because I might have been wrong? I haven't even got into the "cone of correctibility" part yet.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by rainmaker

It's almost as "fun" as the bathtubs with two faucets and three drains, and the trains that meet in tunnels at different speeds!

All you need to know is that if trains meet, you have a crash!

[Kelvin green]

So tell me who were the two teams?

I may know them or coaches...

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

All you need to know is that if trains meet, you have a crash!

That's not all you need to know in 8th grade algebra. Sheez, that stuff is killing me.... uh, I mean my son! I don't know who's gladder to see the end of the school year, him or me. Or is it "he or I"? Way too late in the school year!

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Kelvin green
So tell me who were the two teams?

I may know them or coaches...

Blue was Brighton and White was Bingham. I am told that Brighton is from Salt Lake and that Bingham is from South Jordan. That must be one heck of a league over there because both of these teams had strong kids that could play through contact. Bingham whipped the Northern Nevada defending regional champs by 20 on Sunday (I did that game, too.) Brighton beat two good Northern Nevada teams. In the semi-final they took out last years regular season division champions and before that they defeated a school which is moving up to the 4A for the first time after winning the 3A North 3 of the past 4 years.
The only other UT team that I saw was Olympus. They have a 6-9 kid who will play D1. They lost to Bingham in the other semi-final by 4. The Bingham kids told me that they were happy to win because Olympus (from the Salt Lake area) had beaten them twice at previous tournaments.
All three of these teams would have been a threat to win the Nevada State Title last year as Las Vegas had a down year.
I hope to see some UT teams in Vegas in July.


For the record, sorry to JR for my post being somewhat confusing. cingram deciphered it nicely. I did, in fact, believe that B45's last foul in the 3rd quarter, which was correctly reported by my partner and should have been recorded as his fourth, incorrectly went to B5 in the book. It was this foul that I changed.

We were fortunate that no player was allowed to play when he shouldn't have been in (which might have happened had B45 fouled BEFORE B5 in the 4th quarter) and that B5 only had to sit 2 minutes before B45 fouled causing me to understand the error.
If B45 had fouled later in the game, the time B5 missed would have been greater and probably would have had an impact on the outcome; and if B45 hadn't fouled at all for the rest of the game, I certainly would not have caught the mistake and B5 would have finished the game on the bench. Looking back, it could have been much worse.

[BayStateRef]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
For the record, sorry to JR for my post being somewhat confusing. cingram deciphered it nicely. I did, in fact, believe that B45's last foul in the 3rd quarter, which was correctly reported by my partner and should have been recorded as his fourth, incorrectly went to B5 in the book. It was this foul that I changed.

I worked an AAU tournament recently that used an NCAA scorebook that had space for the scorer to record the time of each foul. This book had other nice "improvements" that certainly made it better for game management when problems arose.

[Hawks Coach]

JR
since we already use the cone for measures of hypothetical verticality, I think we need more a cube of correctability, which has not yet been defined. Therefore, you could define it to include correcting your previously and potentially eroneous calculations of foul counts. Of course, I am not an engineer, so I am not sure about the proper procedure for correcting calculations. Plus, I thought the horse was dead at least three times over before you noted the error, so it may not be within the quadrilateral boundary established by the vertical cube.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
JR
since we already use the cone for measures of hypothetical verticality, I think we need more a cube of correctability, which has not yet been defined. Therefore, you could define it to include correcting your previously and potentially eroneous calculations of foul counts. Of course, I am not an engineer, so I am not sure about the proper procedure for correcting calculations. Plus, I thought the horse was dead at least three times over before you noted the error, so it may not be within the quadrilateral boundary established by the vertical cube.

Coach, just a few points to clear some matters up:
1) We have also used the cone for measurements of hpothetical horizontality also.
2) I have already used the "cone of "correctibility" to delete the word "potentially" above, and accuratize the phrase used to "previously erroneous calculations of foul counts".
3) Just as an aside, and fyi, did you know that the same person who wrote "The Erroneous Zone" also wrote the "Kama Sutra"? Dr Ruth.
4) I are an engineer.
5) A horse is a horse, of course, of course!
6) A quadrilateral boundary encompasses four times as much area as a unilateral boundary, and is also highly recommended by the United Nations. Iow, it will cover up FOUR times as many vertical cubes.
7) You can pick your friends. You can also pick your nose. You can't wipe your friends on your shirt sleeve though. I think.

[Chin Ref]

Just a question, tell me how bad I'm from 1-10 if I cannot remember what number I was call on the fouling player

[Chin Ref]

I mean the previous one

[Kelvin green]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Blue was Brighton and White was Bingham. I am told that Brighton is from Salt Lake and that Bingham is from South Jordan.
The only other UT team that I saw was Olympus. They have a 6-9 kid who will play D1. They lost to Bingham in the other semi-final by 4. The Bingham kids told me that they were happy to win because Olympus (from the Salt Lake area) had beaten them twice at previous tournaments.
All three of these teams would have been a threat to win the Nevada State Title last year as Las Vegas had a down year.
I hope to see some UT teams in Vegas in July.

NevREf..

Yes Bingham is from Souh Jordan (actually just under 4 miles from my house) They have always had a solid team. Brighton is the high school that was rivals with the one I attended and the past few years have been pretty strong. (Salt lake County)

Both Bingham and Brigton played in a Region that included the other high schools from the district. It is a good league. They are both 5A schools. Olympus is a 4A school and has had a good program as well.

However just to give you an idea None of the teams you mentioned won the state championship- In fact the finals did not include anyone from their regions...

When I see the coaches I will let them know!

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

4) I are an engineer.

You is? I didn't know that

7) You can pick your friends. You can also pick your nose. You can't wipe your friends on your shirt sleeve though. I think.

You can tune a piano but you can't tuna fish.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

You is? I didn't know that

JR at work!