Fouled out, not really

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by cingram

1st Half - B5 has 3, B45 has 1
3rd Quarter - 3 quick fouls given to B45 At this point the original error occurs: Sheet reads B5 - 4, B45 - 3
3:35 left in 4th B5 Commits Foul - Score sheet says it is his 5th - Have a seat Sheet reads B5 - 5, B45 - 3
1:33 left in 4th B45 Commits Foul Table says it is his 4th Sheet reads B5 - 5, B45 - 4

At this point: B5 has one too many fouls and B45 is missing one foul.

Nevadaref shifted one foul from B5 to B45 - Giving B5 4 fouls (allowing him to play again), and giving B45 5 fouls giving him a seat.

There are no other mysterious fouls (on any other players) that creep into the equation.

After the correction the Score sheet reads
B5 - 4
B45 - 5 [/B]

Thanks for doing this, cingram. I didn't want to go back and find all the quotes in the original description. Nevada must be closer to Ohio than I remember from hs geography!

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by footlocker

Sidebar: Can something be a little redundant?

If Mr. and Mrs. Redundant had a baby, the baby would be "a little Redundant."

[rainmaker]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by footlocker

Originally posted by rainmaker

Ok, so my grasp of vocabulary isn't as extensive. But correct me if I am wrong here; isn't this a little redundant?

If you want the whole nine-episode saga of The Apple-Polishing Referees, you'll have to e-mail me. I'm not gonna put it up for the whole world to see!

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by rainmaker

It wasn't "charged" wrongly, it was recorded in the book wrongly.

Oh but I disagree!

A foul can be incorrectly "charged" to a player in 2 different ways.

1- The official can report the wrong number.

2- The scorer can record the foul incorrectly.

And there's nothing redundant about that.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

You got farther than I did!

I lied!

Didn't want to hurt his feelings.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by cingram
[/B]

1) 1st Half - B5 has 3, B45 has 1
3rd Quarter - 3 quick fouls given to B45 At this point the original error occurs: Sheet reads B5 - 4, B45 - 3


2) 3:35 left in 4th B5 Commits Foul - Score sheet says it is his 5th - Have a seat Sheet reads B5 - 5, B45 - 3


3) 1:33 left in 4th B45 Commits Foul Table says it is his 4th Sheet reads B5 - 5, B45 - 4



[/B][/QUOTE]How do you figure all this out? It's completely different than what Nevada posted!

1)When the 3 quick fouls were given to B45, B45 now has 4 fouls and B5 has 3 fouls. Nevada pointed out that he knew this for a fact in points #2 and #3 in his original post above. There's nothing posted that really says that he knows what was actually in the score book at this time. Nobody knows.

2)The scorebook did say that this foul at 3:35 is now B5's fifth foul. Now you tell me where B5's FOURTH foul in the score book came from? It's not in any of the posts above.

3)When B45 committed the foul with 1:33 left, and the table told him that it was B45's fourth foul, Nevada knew that this was wrong--BECAUSE HE KNEW THAT B45 HAD COMMITTED 4 FOULS BEFORE THE FOUL THAT OCCURED AT 3:35- READ POINT #3 IN HIS ORIGINAL POST! Nevada had exact knowledge that B45 had committed 5 fouls for sure, and he also thought that the foul charged to B5 at 3:35 should have been charged to B45 instead. If Nevada now changes the foul at 3:35 from B5 to B45, that means that Nevada had actual knowledge that B45 committed SIX fouls- The four fouls before the foul at 3:35, the foul at 3:35 and the foul at 1:33. This still doesn't explain how B5 got wrongfully charged with a FOURTH foul somewhere along the line, or who actually committed this foul.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

If Mr. and Mrs. Redundant had a baby, the baby would be "a little Redundant."

What if they had twins?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

What if they had twins?

Then they'd have TWO babies!

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Then they'd have TWO babies!

Ahhh...I'm starting to see the pattern here...so if they had triplets they would have...uhmmmm...wait wait, don't help me....

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

1) 1st Half - B5 has 3, B45 has 1
3rd Quarter - 3 quick fouls given to B45 At this point the original error occurs: Sheet reads B5 - 4, B45 - 3

2) 3:35 left in 4th B5 Commits Foul - Score sheet says it is his 5th - Have a seat Sheet reads B5 - 5, B45 - 3

3) 1:33 left in 4th B45 Commits Foul Table says it is his 4th Sheet reads B5 - 5, B45 - 4

[/B]

How do you figure all this out? It's completely different than what Nevada posted!

1)When the 3 quick fouls were given to B45, B45 now has 4 fouls and B5 has 3 fouls. Nevada pointed out that he knew this for a fact in points #2 and #3 in his original post above. There's nothing posted that really says that he knows what was actually in the score book at this time. Nobody knows.

2)The scorebook did say that this foul at 3:35 is now B5's fifth foul. Now you tell me where B5's FOURTH foul in the score book came from? It's not in any of the posts above.

3)When B45 committed the foul with 1:33 left, and the table told him that it was B45's fourth foul, Nevada knew that this was wrong--BECAUSE HE KNEW THAT B45 HAD COMMITTED 4 FOULS BEFORE THE FOUL THAT OCCURED AT 3:35- READ POINT #3 IN HIS ORIGINAL POST! Nevada had exact knowledge that B45 had committed 5 fouls for sure, and he also thought that the foul charged to B5 at 3:35 should have been charged to B45 instead. If Nevada now changes the foul at 3:35 from B5 to B45, that means that Nevada had actual knowledge that B45 committed SIX fouls- The four fouls before the foul at 3:35, the foul at 3:35 and the foul at 1:33. This still doesn't explain how B5 got wrongfully charged with a FOURTH foul somewhere along the line, or who actually committed this foul. [/B][/QUOTE]

The numbers were deduced from information given.

At 1:33 left in the Game B45 receives a foul. Both Refs know this is #5. Table says it is #4. (point #9)
Right now what we know is B5 has 5 (fouled out at 3:35) and B45 has 4 (all according to the book). Both refs believe it is supposed to be B45 - 5, B5 - 4.

So this means that at 3:35 when B5 committed his 5th (according to the book) the fouls for the players was B5 - 5, B45 - 3. (point #4+5)

We also knew at halftime that B5 had 3 and B45 had 1. (point #2+3)

So in the first minute of the 3rd Quarter when B45 was accessed with 3 quick fouls (point #3) - One of his fouls must have mistakingly been given to B5.

Point #4 states that the foul at 3:35 was obvious and it was given to B5 (the coaches don't (and Nevadaref doesn't) disagree)

Only one foul was erroneously given (in the book) to B5 - This happened sometime in the 1st minute of the 3rd quarter. When he fouled at the 3:35 mark the coaches said it should have been 4 fouls - 3 plus the T. (point #6)

He only moves one foul over from B5 to B45 - It wasn't his last foul (at 3:35 that he contends, it was the 4th foul that he moved). This gives B45 - 5 fouls (see ya later) and B5 - 4 fouls (welcome back). Never once in his post does he contend that the foul at 3:35 was NOT B5's.

In point #9 he mentions that "I had instantly remembered that both B5 and B45 were in the area when my partner whistled B45 for his fourth and knew that it had been incorrectly recorded as B5. My partner tends to report rather quickly and table likely just missed him first showing 4 fingers." - This would be where he believes the error occurred.

Logic problems... fun.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by cingram

Logic problems... fun.

It's almost as "fun" as the bathtubs with two faucets and three drains, and the trains that meet in tunnels at different speeds!

[CYO Butch]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Then they'd have TWO babies!

It would be a little too redundant!

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by cingram

How do you figure all this out? It's completely different than what Nevada posted!

1)When the 3 quick fouls were given to B45, B45 now has 4 fouls and B5 has 3 fouls. Nevada pointed out that he knew this for a fact in points #2 and #3 in his original post above. There's nothing posted that really says that he knows what was actually in the score book at this time. Nobody knows.

2)The scorebook did say that this foul at 3:35 is now B5's fifth foul. Now you tell me where B5's FOURTH foul in the score book came from? It's not in any of the posts above.

3)When B45 committed the foul with 1:33 left, and the table told him that it was B45's fourth foul, Nevada knew that this was wrong--BECAUSE HE KNEW THAT B45 HAD COMMITTED 4 FOULS BEFORE THE FOUL THAT OCCURED AT 3:35- READ POINT #3 IN HIS ORIGINAL POST! Nevada had exact knowledge that B45 had committed 5 fouls for sure, and he also thought that the foul charged to B5 at 3:35 should have been charged to B45 instead. If Nevada now changes the foul at 3:35 from B5 to B45, that means that Nevada had actual knowledge that B45 committed SIX fouls- The four fouls before the foul at 3:35, the foul at 3:35 and the foul at 1:33. This still doesn't explain how B5 got wrongfully charged with a FOURTH foul somewhere along the line, or who actually committed this foul. [/B]

The numbers were deduced from information given.

At 1:33 left in the Game B45 receives a foul. Both Refs know this is #5. Table says it is #4. (point #9)
Right now what we know is B5 has 5 (fouled out at 3:35) and B45 has 4 (all according to the book). Both refs believe it is supposed to be B45 - 5, B5 - 4.

So this means that at 3:35 when B5 committed his 5th (according to the book) the fouls for the players was B5 - 5, B45 - 3. (point #4+5)

We also knew at halftime that B5 had 3 and B45 had 1. (point #2+3)

So in the first minute of the 3rd Quarter when B45 was accessed with 3 quick fouls (point #3) - One of his fouls must have mistakingly been given to B5.

Point #4 states that the foul at 3:35 was obvious and it was given to B5 (the coaches don't (and Nevadaref doesn't) disagree)

Only one foul was erroneously given (in the book) to B5 - This happened sometime in the 1st minute of the 3rd quarter. When he fouled at the 3:35 mark the coaches said it should have been 4 fouls - 3 plus the T. (point #6)

He only moves one foul over from B5 to B45 - It wasn't his last foul (at 3:35 that he contends, it was the 4th foul that he moved). This gives B45 - 5 fouls (see ya later) and B5 - 4 fouls (welcome back). Never once in his post does he contend that the foul at 3:35 was NOT B5's.

In point #9 he mentions that "I had instantly remembered that both B5 and B45 were in the area when my partner whistled B45 for his fourth and knew that it had been incorrectly recorded as B5. My partner tends to report rather quickly and table likely just missed him first showing 4 fingers." - This would be where he believes the error occurred.

Logic problems... fun. [/B][/QUOTE]

I feel like I have a hangover, and I haven't had any brownpops in weeks!!! Good grief...

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by rockyroad
[/B]

I feel like I have a hangover, and I haven't had any brownpops in weeks!!! Good grief...

[/B][/QUOTE]Hey, I'm working on my MTD Sr.(patent pending) response.You just keep writing a whole buncha things down until everybody gets confused. Wait 'til I bring up the "cone of correctibility" next.

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

I feel like I have a hangover, and I haven't had any brownpops in weeks!!! Good grief...

[/B]

Hey, I'm working on my MTD Sr.(patent pending) response.You just keep writing a whole buncha things down until everybody gets confused. Wait 'til I bring up the "cone of correctibility" next. [/B][/QUOTE]

I think where you may have become confused is with point #9 "I had instantly remembered that both B5 and B45 were in the area when my partner whistled B45 for his fourth and knew that it had been incorrectly recorded as B5. My partner tends to report rather quickly and table likely just missed him first showing 4 fingers." - This is referring to the 3rd Quarter when B45 should have received his 4th, but it may have accidentally been given to B5 (giving B5 his 4th instead of B45 his 4th).

I'm really not trying to confuse everybody (sorry if I did)

Basically a short summary - 9 fouls called on B5 and B45 together
The book has B5 - 5, B45 - 4
Refs know this is incorrect and changed it to be B5 - 4, B45 - 5 (as they believed it should be).

Hope this is better