AAU Ramblings and a Play

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by rainmaker
But as someone cited above, doesn't an OOB still call for a re-set?

No. If B had simply deflected the ball OOB, the shot clock would not have been reset.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Jimgolf

Isn't out of bounds a violation?

So, Tony, in NCAA, is oob a violation? is it a violation generally, but not for the purposes of the shot clock?

[BktBallRef]

NCAA 2-13-7a
Stop the timing device and continue time without a reset when play begins under the following circumstances:
a. The ball is deflected out of bounds by a defensive player.

[mick]

Originally posted by rainmaker


So, Tony, in NCAA, is oob a violation? is it a violation generally, but not for the purposes of the shot clock?

Jewel,
Like Tony mentioned previously, team control changed.

A did have team control before the interception. [A shot clock : 24.]

B had the ball, not Team A (change of control), when the violation occurred.[B shot clock: 29.2]

A throws the ball in on B violation; change of control [A shot clock: 30]

I know you know.
mick

[BktBallRef]

Saw my two partners today. One told me I was right before I could even bring it up. I gave the other the rule reference.

Today, we had a 5 second count on a held ball throw-in. i told the timer to switch the arow. Wroking with the smae partner who conceded I was right about the shot clock play. He questioned me as to whether it should be switched or not. I stood my ground.

We switched the arrow.

It's amazing that some very good officials have to discuss these things out, when those of us who frequent discussion boards...well, it's second nature to us.

[mick]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Saw my two partners today. One told me I was right before I could even bring it up. I gave the other the rule reference.

Today, we had a 5 second count on a held ball throw-in. i told the timer to switch the arow. Wroking with the smae partner who conceded I was right about the shot clock play. He questioned me as to whether it should be switched or not. I stood my ground.

We switched the arrow.

It's amazing that some very good officials have to discuss these things out, when those of us who frequent discussion boards...well, it's second nature to us.

I love it when things happen as they should.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by mick

Jewel,
Like Tony mentioned previously, team control changed.

A did have team control before the interception. [A shot clock : 24.]

B had the ball, not Team A (change of control), when the violation occurred.[B shot clock: 29.2]

A throws the ball in on B violation; change of control [A shot clock: 30]

I know you know.
mick

Actually, mick, I don't know. I've always ignored any discussion of NCAA rules, because I just didn't need the extra data taking up synapses in my brain. But the theory is that someday, I may get a few college games (maybe even this fall????) and I'll need to know this stuff. So I'm starting to pay attention and ask questions. Especially shot-clock stuff can't hurt, since it isn't going to get confused with anything else.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by rainmaker

So, Tony, in NCAA, is oob a violation? is it a violation generally, but not for the purposes of the shot clock?

Wassamatta?

You don't trust me?

sheesh...

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Wassamatta?

You don't trust me?

sheesh...

You're giving me way too much credit. I didn't understand the discussion well enough to trust or distrust anyone. I intended to change the question a little and head off on a tangent. I was trying to understand the oob part of the play, if it wasn't complicated by the change of possession. Tony understood my question, and gave me the quote along with the cite. Helpful since I don't have a book.

Truth to tell, my head has been spinning the last few weeks as I try to start picking up CCA 3-person mechanics. It is just so overwhelming! And I had intended to ignore rule differences between HS and college for a while longer, but this discussion seemed so germane, and as I said above, it wouldn't complicate any HS rule thoughts, since we don't use a shot clock here in Oregon, so I thought I'd ask a few quetsions.

[Hawks Coach]

Juulie
Perhaps what you are missing is that OOB by A would automatically result in shot clock reset, even though there has not yet been a change in team control. Violations by A result in B getting ball and a new clock, with new clock coming right away.

Probably doesn't matter much with NCAA now giving TC on a throw-in, but without that rule, it would be a significant provision.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Juulie
Perhaps what you are missing is that OOB by A would automatically result in shot clock reset, even though there has not yet been a change in team control. Violations by A result in B getting ball and a new clock, with new clock coming right away.

Probably doesn't matter much with NCAA now giving TC on a throw-in, but without that rule, it would be a significant provision.

Coach, I'm not getting why you say TC on the throw-in makes a difference here.

As far as I can tell it doesn't.

Any violation causes a shot clock reset except when the defense deflects the ball OOB.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Any violation causes a shot clock reset except when the defense deflects the ball OOB.

95% of violations are turn-overs, anyway, right? The only ones that would be questions would be if the defense tipped it out, or if the defense kicked the ball, right?

[mick]

Originally posted by rainmaker

95% of violations are turn-overs, anyway, right? The only ones that would be questions would be if the defense tipped it out, or if the defense kicked the ball, right?

Jewel,
On a defensive kick, there is an exception.
Because it is "illegal" to kick the ball out-of-bounds, the shot clock is reset.
If the ball is "legally" deflected out-of-bounds, the clock is not rest.
mick

Edit:
Actually, the kicked ball doesn't have to go out-of-bounds for a reset.

[Edited by mick on May 17th, 2004 at 10:13 AM]

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by mick

Jewel,
On a defensive kick, there is an exception.
Because it is "illegal" to kick the ball out-of-bounds, the shot clock is reset.
If the ball is "legally" deflected out-of-bounds, the clock is not rest.
mick

Edit:
Actually, the kicked ball doesn't have to go out-of-bounds for a reset.

[Edited by mick on May 17th, 2004 at 10:13 AM]

I did get that. My point was, why point out that the shot clock is re-set on a violation? Of course it is, since the ball is turned over. The kick and the deflection oob are the only defensive violations. The kick resets the shot clock, the tip doesn't.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by rainmaker

95% of violations are turn-overs, anyway, right? The only ones that would be questions would be if the defense tipped it out, or if the defense kicked the ball, right?

I don't know if I agree with your number but I agree with the concept. In practice you need to remember to reset the shot clock on a kick ball (ncaa kick not the same as a NF kick btw), or any turnover and of course when the ball hits the rim on a shot. Generally fouls cause a reset but it gets messy with double fouls & technical fouls. No reset on a held ball if the offense has the arrow.

You can download the ncaa book from the web.

The CCA manual has many (24 or 28?) shot clock scenarios with proper ruling.