NBA vs. NCAA officials

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
[/B]

So I'll state again my interpretation of the pro philosophy: if two players contact the shooter (happens all the time), and if the difference in contact is not that great (and usually, it's not), and if the official is aware of the fouls on each of the players, then the guy with fewer fouls will probably get the foul.

[/B][/QUOTE]Didn't you also add that "the guy with fewer fouls will probably get the foul unless he happens to be a star? Do you agree with that part of the pro philosophy?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by JRutledge
I do not do this to "distribute" fouls or not to call fouls all together.

Who ever said anything about "not calling fouls altogether"? Where did you and Eric come up with that? NOBODY is saying that you should not call a foul when the shooter is fouled. I would never say that, and it's obvious that pro officials do NOT subscribe to that philosophy.

If a star clearly fouls another player, he is getting called for it regardless

So what happens if the star player and another defender foul the shooter at the same time? They both obviously foul him. Are you going to call a multiple foul? No way, right? So if you know -- for whatever reason -- that one of the players has 3 fouls and the other only has one foul, who do you call the foul on?

I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm just trying to make my point as clearly as possible. What you said in your previous post is the same thing I'm saying.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Didn't you also add that "the guy with fewer fouls will probably get the foul unless he happens to be a star?

No, I don't think I did. . .
_________________________________________
[Edit] Oh, ok, the Luke Walton crack. That's why I threw "probably" in there. Remember, we're distributing the fouls to keep the stars in the game, if possible.

[Edited by ChuckElias on Apr 23rd, 2004 at 10:05 PM]

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

And I said he's exactly right. Ok, I see your point. I took him to be speaking generally, about the normal course of play, like the usual situation where a shooter gets hit by two defenders at roughly the same time with about the same amount of contact. You took him literally to mean that the level of contact never matters.

If you look way back on p2, he was answering a very plain, literal and specific question that I put forth- i.e. "Do you take into account that the contact from one player may be stronger than another, and that this contact rarely occurs exactly simultaneously?".As per his answer above relating to that question, he replied that it DOES NOT matter who hit the player harder or first. You just give the foul to the player who has he fewer fouls. That's what you agreed with, Chuck. I took him literally because that was his answer to a literal and specific question.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Snaqwells

Simple. I don't think hs ball should be about the stars. For those players who are going to move on to higher levels, it doesn't do them much good to give them "star" treatment. It also doesn't do them any good to help them get more than 5 fouls in a game, regardless of whether they are stars or not. I think for me it's an instructional thing.
I agree with Rut, that we should make sure the last couple are obvious, but if the guy with four fouls comes in and hacks the offensive player, followed by a teammate doing the same thing; I'll be calling the first foul, because that's the rule.

Unless, of course, my assignor wants it done differently.

Where did I say anything about not giving it to the "star" player, I said, "If I am aware that one player has more fouls and they both contact A1 at about the same time and you don't have one player killing A1, I'm giving the foul to the kid with fewer fouls."

As for calling the first foul, by rule you should call BOTH FOULS if it is on an airborne shooter.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

No, I don't think I did. . .
_________________________________________
[Edit] Oh, ok, the Luke Walton crack. That's why I threw "probably" in there. Remember, we're distributing the fouls to keep the stars in the game, if possible.

Yes, Chuck, you did say that. You were basically saying that there IS a "star" system in place in the NBA then, and that the "fewer foul" philosophy doesn't really apply to the stars- only the average players? No wonder it's such a tough game to referee,eh?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
That's what you agreed with, Chuck. I took him literally because that was his answer to a literal and specific question.

You're right. I already said I should not have agreed "exactly" with the way blindzebra worded it. Uncle!

However, in everything I've said since then, is the "pro philosophy" at least now clear?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

However, in everything I've said since then, is the "pro philosophy" at least now clear?

[/B]

Yeah, I think so. And as the NBA is mainly an "entertainment" league, I can't really say that the pro philosophy is wrong. I also could never,ever say that the officials were wrong in carrying out their league mandate. They don't have a choice. Has to be hard sometimes, though. Too much thinking involved.

I do think that that particular "pro" philosophy has no place in high school ball though, but I also don't think that you were advocating that anyway.I think that you and JRut might actually be pretty close in what you were trying to say. Which is that the last foul on a "good" player should also be a "good" foul. Or am I wrong?

[Brad]

Originally posted by ace
Like you have room to talk Brad... What time did you get up this morning? LOL You working Kingwood Tourny this weekend?

Don't be jealous because I can work from home while you are in class all day!!

I was not scheduled to work the tournament this weekend because I had some family and friends in town... However, BBall_Junkie had to call me in at the last minute to come take care of some business! Many fouls and three technicals later we got things under control!

[BBall_Junkie]

Originally posted by Brad

Don't be jealous because I can work from home while you are in class all day!!

I was not scheduled to work the tournament this weekend because I had some family and friends in town... However, BBall_Junkie had to call me in at the last minute to come take care of some business! Many fouls and three technicals later we got things under control!

It was either call you in or work the championship by myself because my co-official for the previous six games punked out on me. So it was call you in since you live up the road or work it by myself. After I thought this through long and hard, I decided that having you there would be slightly better than going it alone.

Just kidding! Thanks for the help. We had our share of PAB's in that game for sure

[ace]

I had a coach tell me he was going to f me up as long with sevearl other things. I was working with J. Lopez and T. Robinson. :shakes head: Steve and the Tourny director eventually gave him the the heave ho for the rest of the tourny. Some of those people were just stupid. I got asked to come back in July so iwas excited. Finally got to wear my stinking gray shirts. Had a 4 game stretch to finsih off the ngiht saturday. Damian said BBall_junkie dropped quite a few T's friday night. I had my fair share this weekend. So much for not wanting to give any. Hanging on the rim for no reason... F bomb... back talking... Gave a coach two really good stop signs I went up the floor and came back down again and he was still talking about the play so I rung him up. Wish I coulda seen what the score was and how much time there was left before I done it though. Anyway... glad we all had some fun. FYI - I ran 3-man all week... Whos going to San Antonio for Stigs camp besides me?

[tomegun]

Originally posted by ace
I had a coach tell me he was going to f me up as long with sevearl other things. I was working with J. Lopez and T. Robinson. :shakes head: Steve and the Tourny director eventually gave him the the heave ho for the rest of the tourny. Some of those people were just stupid. I got asked to come back in July so iwas excited. Finally got to wear my stinking gray shirts. Had a 4 game stretch to finsih off the ngiht saturday. Damian said BBall_junkie dropped quite a few T's friday night. I had my fair share this weekend. So much for not wanting to give any. Hanging on the rim for no reason... F bomb... back talking... Gave a coach two really good stop signs I went up the floor and came back down again and he was still talking about the play so I rung him up. Wish I coulda seen what the score was and how much time there was left before I done it though. Anyway... glad we all had some fun. FYI - I ran 3-man all week... Whos going to San Antonio for Stigs camp besides me?

Am I missing something?
Was this meant to be a PM?
Can someone translate?

[Brad]

Don't worry tomegun -- we can barely understand ace in person!!!

[ace]

I never can get my personal messaging thing to work, probably should have emailed it. I figured with this for at the bottom of the thread and only Brad and BBall posting It'd be safe to talk about a tournament that most of officials from Houston worked this weekend.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by ace
I had a coach tell me he was going to f me up as long with sevearl other things.

Coach - let me be the first to say farewell.

Somewhat shockingly, I've never been threatened at rec sports games - if I ever were, the player would be ejected, and campus police would be getting a nice little call.