NBA vs. NCAA officials

[blindzebra]

If I have an equal chance to call a foul on either player, I'll give it to the player with fewer fouls. If it is a clubbing it is a foul on the clubber.

[ace]

Like you have room to talk Brad... What time did you get up this morning? LOL You working Kingwood Tourny this weekend?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by blindzebra
If I have an equal chance to call a foul on either player, I'll give it to the player with fewer fouls. If it is a clubbing it is a foul on the clubber.

Whoa, that's not what you said before. You said " Who hit HARDER or FIRST does NOT enter the picture". Do you think that that really is an "equal" chance, if you're automatically gonna give the foul to the defender who has the fewest fouls charged to them, no matter what?

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Apr 23rd, 2004 at 04:45 PM]

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Whoa, that's not what you said before. You said " Who hit HARDER or FIRST does NOT enter the picture". Do you think that that really is an "equal" chance?

You asked Chuck about HIS NBA PHILOSOPHY and I answered about that, not my personal philosophy.

Nice try though, one day you might actually agree with something I post, but I'm not holding my breath.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
So one defender can smack the hell out a shooter, and do that first, but another defender can then barely make contact, and that slight contact can occur AFTER the first defender smacked the hell out of the shooter, but the pro philosophy is to then call the 2nd defender for the foul if the 2nd defender has fewer fouls. Right? And that's true even if the second defender is Shaq, and the first defender is just some scrubeenie off of the bench, because you're supposed to "distribute" the fouls to the player who has the fewest. And this exact same philosophy is used in HS ball if the official happens to possess the "awareness" to be able to use it. Correct?

Now who's looking down their nose? Jeez, you grumpy this afternoon?

Look, blindzebra's exactly right. If I have two players who contact the shooter, and I can remember that B1 has 3 fouls, but B2 doesn't have any, then I give the foul to B2. The amount of contact is only relevant if it's significantly different. In your terminology, the clubbing has to be called over the slight contact. I mean, that's pretty obvious, right?

Well, the very last words of my pre-game notes say:

• Call the obvious;
• Protect the shooter;
• Referee the defense;
• Trust our partner(s).

First on that list is "Call the obvious". A guy clubs somebody and he gets a foul. But if two players contact the shooter (happens all the time), and if the difference in contact is not that great (and usually, it's not), and if I am aware of the fouls on each of the players, then the guy with fewer fouls will probably get the foul.

Now, as for the "Shaq" reference, I don't really have to worry about that, do I? But my guess is, if the choice was:

1) Give the foul to Shaq (who has 1 foul) or give it to Kobe (who has 3), I think they'd give it to Shaq.

or

2) Give the foul to Shaq (who has 1 foul) or give it to Luke Walton (who has 3), I think they'd give it to Walton.

Again, that's just my guess. Remember, the philosophy is to distribute the fouls (if possible) so that the stars stay in the game.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by blindzebra

You asked Chuck about HIS NBA PHILOSOPHY and I answered about that, not my personal philosophy.

Nice try though, one day you might actually agree with something I post, but I'm not holding my breath.

1) I'm trying to understand the NBA philosophy. That's hard to do if you keep changing your description of what it is.

2) I really don't have a clue whether you and I have ever agreed on anything. I never keep track of things like that, with you or any other poster. Basically, I really don't give a dexter, one way or the other.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

2) I really don't have a clue whether you and I have ever agreed on anything. I never keep track of things like that

Gotta start working on that "agreement awareness"?

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

1) I'm trying to understand the NBA philosophy. That's hard to do if you keep changing your description of what it is.

2) I really don't have a clue whether you and I have ever agreed on anything. I never keep track of things like that, with you or any other poster. Basically, I really don't give a dexter, one way or the other.

I never changed a description of a NBA philosophy, I talked about taking one for the team as it applies to the NBA and how I call it. You were looking for something to rag on me about and ignored what I clearly posted.

It is obvious that you do go out of your way to disagree with several posters on this forum and you always ignore any relevent arguements these posters bring up.

[Adam]

Originally posted by blindzebra
It is obvious that you do go out of your way to disagree with several posters on this forum and you always ignore any relevent arguements these posters bring up.

Wow, I have to simply say that it isn't obvious. Or I'd have noticed it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

1) Look, blindzebra's exactly right. If I have two players who contact the shooter, and I can remember that B1 has 3 fouls, but B2 doesn't have any, then I give the foul to B2. The amount of contact is only relevant if it's significantly different. In your terminology, the clubbing has to be called over the slight contact. I mean, that's pretty obvious, right?
Well, the very last words of my pre-game notes say:[list][*]Call the obvious;
First on that list is "Call the obvious". A guy clubs somebody and he gets a foul. But if two players contact the shooter (happens all the time), and if the difference in contact is not that great (and usually, it's not), and if I am aware of the fouls on each of the players, then the guy with fewer fouls will probably get the foul.


2) Give the foul to Shaq (who has 1 foul) or give it to Luke Walton (who has 3), I think they'd give it to Walton.

Chuck, I 'm no grumpier than I usually am, believe it or not. I'm just trying to understand where you guys are coming from, and, quite frankly, you've both got me confused as hell.

1) Blindzebra said "Who hit HARDER or FIRST does NOT enter the picture. You say that you agree with him. Now you are also saying that you WILL give the foul to the defender that DOES hit harder(club someone). Hello? That's exactly why I asked the questions above. What am I missing here? If you go back and read my posts, I haven't disagreed with anything yet. It's hard to disagree when you're not completely sure of whatinthehell the "pro philosophy actually is.

2) Again, you're confusing me. Are you telling me that the "pro philosophy" of equally distributing fouls does NOT apply to the stars like Shaq? It only applies if the star has more fouls, but it doesn't apply if the star has fewer fouls, is that correct? What difference is there between that and outright favoring the stars when it comes to fouls then?

3) And you still personally think that the same "pro philosophy", as detailed above by you and Blindzebra should be used in HS games also? Who hits harder or first does not enter the picture. Give the foul automaticlly to the player who has fewer fouls, unless that player also is the star. In that case, you give it to his teammate.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Snaqwells

Wow, I have to simply say that it isn't obvious. Or I'd have noticed it.

You must have been caught in a stack, so I got it for you partner.

[dhodges007]

Originally posted by d-wil


I'm a fairly reilgious watcher of NBA TV's 30 minute segment with Ronnie Nunn...

What is the name of that show? I can't find it anywhere! Thanks!

[Adam]

Originally posted by blindzebra

You must have been caught in a stack, so I got it for you partner.

Nah, trust me. I saw the play just fine. JR may be growly, but I've never seen him bite.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Chuck, I 'm no grumpier than I usually am, believe it or not. I'm just trying to understand where you guys are coming from, and, quite frankly, you've both got me confused as hell.

1) Blindzebra said "Who hit HARDER or FIRST does NOT enter the picture. You say that you agree with him. Now you are also saying that you WILL give the foul to the defender that DOES hit harder(club someone). Hello? That's exactly why I asked the questions above. What am I missing here? If you go back and read my posts, I haven't disagreed with anything yet. It's hard to disagree when you're not completely sure of whatinthehell the "pro philosophy actually is.

2) Again, you're confusing me. Are you telling me that the "pro philosophy" of equally distributing fouls does NOT apply to the stars like Shaq? It only applies if the star has more fouls, but it doesn't apply if the star has fewer fouls, is that correct? What difference is there between that and outright favoring the stars when it comes to fouls then?

3) And you still personally think that the same "pro philosophy", as detailed above by you and Blindzebra should be used in HS games also? Who hits harder or first does not enter the picture. Give the foul automaticlly to the player who has fewer fouls, unless that player also is the star. In that case, you give it to his teammate.

I think the "Taking one for the team" philosophy should be
used in HS, but not the same way it is applied in the NBA, where amount of contact and star versus role player enter the mix.

I will call the foul on the player with fewer fouls when the contact occurs at ABOUT the same time and the amount of contact is ABOUT the same.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by blindzebra

[/B]

I never changed a description of a NBA philosophy, I talked about taking one for the team as it applies to the NBA and how I call it. You were looking for something to rag on me about and ignored what I clearly posted.

It is obvious that you do go out of your way to disagree with several posters on this forum and you always ignore any relevent arguements these posters bring up.

[/B][/QUOTE] Actually, it's very rare for Chuck and myself to disagree. And I still don't know yet whether we disagree or not in this thread. I'm still trying to pin down what the "NBA philosophy" actually is. So far, what I've got- from your words and Chuck's- is that if 2 defenders foul an opponent, you automatically give the foul to the defender who has fewer fouls. And the degree of contact, or whether one opponent maybe made contact before the other opponent is not relevant at all. Unless one of the defenders is one of the team's stars. In that case, the other player- not the star- will get the foul. And officials in HS ball should have the same "awareness" so that they can use the same philosophy there.

That's what I got so far. Heckuva system.