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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 16, 2000, 06:09pm
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I officiated a game with an official last night who is a second year official in a 5-A Varsity Ball Game.
I do not understand how this happened even though I have talked to my division rep. and both told me that if a person is picked by a coach in their second year that they will be given the game.
I understand a coach having confidence in a person but this is ridiculous to me.
This person did not know mechanics,did not have the proper jacket,shoes were not shined and the pre-game talk with the captains included a discussion of the white line being out of bounds.
Would somebody please give me a honest answer because I truly believe that this procedure needs to be changed.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sat Dec 16, 2000, 08:05pm
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Question I cannot tell you for sure but.......

maybe he was filling in? Maybe he was better than anyone else that was availible? Are you upset because he was a second year official, or are you upset because he was not a good official? I have seen guys that are 20 year vets, that I ask the same question and 2nd year guys that I would much rather work with. Not in all cases the 2nd year guy might be more willing to learn and might be not as stuck in his ways. I worked with a guy that was a first year in a JV game the other night, and I would work any varsity with him. And the two officials that were doing the varsity, well, I would rather have stayed home.

He might have been a bad official, but what does his experience have to do with his ability, and I really do not know what the class has anything to do with varsity ball. For the most part, varsity is varsity. But that is another discussion.



Quote:
Originally posted by jlfjr
I officiated a game with an official last night who is a second year official in a 5-A Varsity Ball Game.
I do not understand how this happened even though I have talked to my division rep. and both told me that if a person is picked by a coach in their second year that they will be given the game.
I understand a coach having confidence in a person but this is ridiculous to me.
This person did not know mechanics,did not have the proper jacket,shoes were not shined and the pre-game talk with the captains included a discussion of the white line being out of bounds.
Would somebody please give me a honest answer because I truly believe that this procedure needs to be changed.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 17, 2000, 02:14pm
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As far as i'm concerned ability and experience have nothing to do with each other.I'm a second year offical. I also get a good number of senior(varsity) and play off games. I was also assigned to a medal game at the Provincial championships this year. I agree, some second years do need work. But so do many 20 year vets.
Tyler
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 17, 2000, 07:51pm
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And I was an evaluator at the Summer Games that Tyler (moose) is talking about.

I believe that it is 95% about experience. When I started officiating (basketball), I had very good judgement for a first year referee, but knew nothing of mechanics, etc... (my local board (at the time) was not very progressive). It took two summers at the MDP camp here to perfect my mechanics.

I think ability and experience are VERY closely related. An official on my local board has two NBA camps under his belt, and is a FIBA official as well. His biggest asset? His *ability* to draw from experiences which takes others years to learn.

There's no doubt that Tyler did very well at the Ontario Summer Games. In fact, one particular game he officiated, he and his partner (smile Tyler!) made 6 absolutely perfect PC calls. However, being exposed to situations is very important. You can talk all you want, but until you're on the court and something weird happens, it's all just theory. But there inlies a talent to have. To know the theory of officiating, and to apply it when it happens. You've got less than a second to make a call.

I think you need to find out about his officating past. Has he been to a camp? How did he get into reffing? Is his board slow to progress. It happened to me, and I pissed alot of peopel off when I started doing things my board never did before. Like a pre-game and shining my shoes.

I think someone recommended for an assignment after their 2nd year is someone you should *help*, unless you're frightened about your own game.

Just remember - it's about the art of officiaing, not the science of officiaing.
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Old Sun Dec 17, 2000, 10:13pm
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I have seen varsity games where both officials were second year officials. Fortunatly it was a 2a girls game. Still, 5a boys, is no place to be learning how to officiate. I will say this, that the two officials were officials that call 100+ games / year and had their mechanics down very well.
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Old Mon Dec 18, 2000, 09:31am
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You gotta read this!


Just a quick note to mention that my old local board was progressive. Some officials that I officiated with were very progressive. Others were not.

As it turned out, I felt that I reffed more games with officials that were less progressive than they could have been, than I did with officials that were more progressive than the local masses.

Note that I'm *not* saying of which type there are more of - above average in progressiveness or below average in progressiveness - just that I had the time (being in my early 20s, not married, etc...) to talk forever about officiating!

Some weeks I think I spent more time at my friend Bruce's house, talking about officiating, than I did at home with my family. I can only imagine that my life will change when I'm lucky enough to wed and have children. You can learn alot of officiating from watching others and through discussions, but I also remember calling a false double foul (and yes, it was the absolute correct call) - there's a certain realization curve when making a call that you'd never thought about, and it doesn't get by you. (I was only a 2nd year ref then.)

Every officials' group has officials of varying capabilities. I guess I'm lucky that it affects me in a curious manner regarding learning about officiating.
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Old Mon Dec 18, 2000, 12:39pm
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Okay! We have a second year official, who wants to be an official, he has gone to camps, works on his mechanics in the off season. He does 100 plus games per year. Or you have a 20 year vet who goes through the motions, and does maybe 10-20 games a season. Who is more qualified?
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Old Mon Dec 18, 2000, 12:41pm
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Exclamation Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by AK ref SE
Okay! We have a second year official, who wants to be an official, he has gone to camps, works on his mechanics in the off season. He does 100 plus games per year. Or you have a 20 year vet who goes through the motions, and does maybe 10-20 games a season. Who is more qualified?
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 18, 2000, 02:18pm
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I don't see how long you have been wearing the stripes, but wouldn't it have been more constructive to try and help him, rather than complain? I think most us have used the wrong equipment, and there was a vet there to help out. Same with mechanics, they can be taught. If he is using the wrong mechanics, and you don't try and help, then he doesn't know he was in error. I know I looked up to the older guys when I started, and we have to make the effort to help them. Like him or not, if the coaches like him, he is not going anywere. You need to adjust or help him become better.

I think this is what that other thread was talking about when he said some vets don't want to take the time to help younger guys. Personally, I usually like to work with the younger officials. They work their tails off and they still know that they don't know it all. Once you forget that, it is all down hill.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 18, 2000, 02:57pm
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Smile

Whether we are rookie, seasoned, or veteran official I don't think we can ever "have seen it all", or "have had the perfect game". Sometimes we can be our own worst enemies. In parts of the country, especially where I come from, we are hurting for officials, and we we do not make the newcomers welcome or try and teach an upcoming official in a positive manner. We are going to hurt the port. The most important thing is the kids, Whether it is a youth league(pee wee game) or a Varsity championship game. We need to not worry sometimes about the 1st year hardcharger getting the Varsity game. Sometime we need to look at ourselves(are we jealous, are we afraid of the new guy). I move around a lot in my job, and I am always the rookie. I had a D1 referee tell me " Do your game whatever level, do you best."

AK ref SE
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 18, 2000, 03:23pm
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As a first year official, I can see your frustration, but like everyone else was saying, you should have taken that opportunity to teach him things he doesn't know. I love talking to experienced officials before games, I learn more there than I ever did in camp. Also during timeouts and between periods, go over and talk to them, I know we are supposed to be on the block at opposite ends, but this is a great time to go over situations while they are fresh on the mind.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 18, 2000, 04:00pm
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Exclamation amen

Quote:
Originally posted by AK ref SE
Whether we are rookie, seasoned, or veteran official I don't think we can ever "have seen it all", or "have had the perfect game". Sometimes we can be our own worst enemies.... Sometime we need to look at ourselves(are we jealous, are we afraid of the new guy).

AK ref SE
Since you were on the game as well, I'll assume that YOU deserved to be on the assignment.

From your description of this officials shortcomings, sounds like he has a lot of potential. You didn't mention any bad or missed calls.

Take it as a compliment that the assignor had faith in YOU to mentor this 2nd year official along on this particular game. Did you? Everything you listed as a criticism, did you offer to share with the official? How about the assignor?

Just blow your own game, don't worry about others. In fact, you should support any official for getting his/her chance because it will be you someday, at some other level.

Assignors have their reasons, and they are not always for public understanding or even explainable.

The cream will always rise to the top, and the pretenders will always sink to the bottom.





[Edited by pizanno on Dec 18th, 2000 at 03:06 PM]
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