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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Wed Feb 25, 2004, 05:17am
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Re: Re: Is this not somewhat true?

Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman


I was referring to a high school assignor who said that nobody would ever move up unless one of the vets died. That's called status quo. That insinuates that there is no chance for advancement regardless of ability. Advancement should be through ability and officials can improve (or degrade). To make a blanket statement like that is ridiculous and IMHO, unethical. It sure wouldn't fly in my area.

Z
I think you are taking the comment too literally. Basically someone has to be replaced in order for an official to move up. I think that was the point of the comments and a reason I have heard similar comments in the past. And for the record, if that comment was made in my area, there is no one to report to. This is not an issue for the state. Not sure how a state has a say over anything like that? We are independant contractors, the state I would think would have no say over who gets hired and who does not get hired.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 26, 2004, 03:34pm
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bottom line. Officials shouldn'tworry about moving up. Just worry about getting better and the moving up thing will happen.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 26, 2004, 03:40pm
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally posted by footlocker
bottom line. Officials shouldn'tworry about moving up. Just worry about getting better and the moving up thing will happen.
The two are tied together. You can get better, but there are people that also might not notice. You do not just get better than fall into a D1 schedule. You have to attend camps and possibly get recommended to get that kind of opportunity. And the same goes for varsity level, at least where I live. I am sure it is not that much different in other places.

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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 27, 2004, 01:27pm
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Two thoughts = my $0.02

Thought the first, from a college research paper I did a while ago. The thing we like to call politics can be usefully divided into two categories. The first is more properly termed "group dynamic." It is the unwritten, and often unspoken, rules of how a group operates. The second is the underhanded, cloak and dagger, backstabbing behavior some people use to try to get ahead of others.

The word politics is a very loaded term. In the second case, the negative connotations are well deserved and the behavior best avoided. However, the negativity of the term can sometimes lead a person to avoid participating in the group dynamic. This is almost always a mistake. Understanding and participating in the group dynamic is essential to being accepted and successful within the group. It's not stooping to something low and dirty, it's simply the way the group operates.

Thought the second, working hard to improve is important. However, it is only half the battle. The other half is getting seen and noticed and talked about among the folks who make decisions about moving people up. This can be harder than the improving part. It requires some amount of luck and often some initiative on the part of the person who wants to move up. Camps are one way to do this, as has been mentioned. I know officials around here who have phoned board members and asked them to come watch them work. I know officials who have asked the assigner to deliberately put them on a JV game ahead of board members working a varsity contest so they can be seen. Our association has a regular Saturday clinic that is a like a camp, where new officials can learn and been seen. Some of these may work for you. They have worked for people around here. You might want to ask around your area to see what works in your situation.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 27, 2004, 01:39pm
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Re: Moving up

Quote:
Originally posted by WinterWillie
Quote:
Originally posted by footlocker
Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman
It has been my experience that the "politics" argument is used by those officials who are unhappy with their ranking and aren't willing to go to the time and effort of really figuring out why they aren't moving up.
It is political and you all know it. The association I belong to moved a new official to a full varsity schedule after only two years on the board. He was the son of the president of the association. My advice to xxssmen, after you brush up on your writing skills, learn how to BN- that is, if you are as good as your evaluators say you are-which by the way will be the indivduals that you are "leap frogging" over.(Look at it this way, would you like somebody "leap frogging" over you?) My experience in this avocation has been that someone with alot of personality seems to do very well because of the social interaction it requires to be judgmental without it seeming to be. Or in other words, the "my way or the highway"
mentality, seems to work against you as you move up. But, as you intimated before, it does help to know someone (as in mentor).
I will not say that politics do not come into play because they definitely exist and can have a real role in what happens to any one person.

OTOH, I can tell you from my personal experience in two state that you can get opportunities based soley on ability. I moved to a new state this year, into an association with well over 400 officials, I worked a full varsity schedule and will officiate the State 5A boys quarter finals tomorrow night. This is not said to pat myself on the back, but I moved to the state right before the season started (literally) so I had no time to network or get to know anyone prior to the season and I still got what I was looking for out of my schedule. IMO, ability has the most to do with what happens to you. None of us (myself included) are as good as we think we are. Cream does rise to the top.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 27, 2004, 01:51pm
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Re: Re: Re: Is this not somewhat true?

Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman


I was referring to a high school assignor who said that nobody would ever move up unless one of the vets died. That's called status quo. That insinuates that there is no chance for advancement regardless of ability. Advancement should be through ability and officials can improve (or degrade). To make a blanket statement like that is ridiculous and IMHO, unethical. It sure wouldn't fly in my area.

Z
I think you are taking the comment too literally. Basically someone has to be replaced in order for an official to move up. I think that was the point of the comments and a reason I have heard similar comments in the past. And for the record, if that comment was made in my area, there is no one to report to. This is not an issue for the state. Not sure how a state has a say over anything like that? We are independant contractors, the state I would think would have no say over who gets hired and who does not get hired.

Peace
Rut,

I see your point. My point is that no official should be "untouchable." In our association, I am rated #5 (out of 100) this year. If someone rated below me is better than me, they should move ahead of my and I should move down for next year. To say that I have to "die" before I move down is not right. We have a peer rating system here and I once heard one of my fellow veterans tell the group, "if you aren't sure how to rate someone, take a look at where they were rated last year and that's a pretty good indicator." I about fell over. After I got back up, I disagreed and told everyone they need to rate based on what they observe in the current year.

I didn't mean to see that our state officials association can dictate how our local association rates. However, they are a body that oversees each association, so they could step in if they felt that a local association was operating in an unethical manner.

Z
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 27, 2004, 04:32pm
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Re: Re: Moving up

Quote:
Originally posted by stripes
Quote:
Originally posted by WinterWillie
Quote:
Originally posted by footlocker
Quote:
Originally posted by zebraman
It has been my experience that the "politics" argument is used by those officials who are unhappy with their ranking and aren't willing to go to the time and effort of really figuring out why they aren't moving up.
It is political and you all know it. The association I belong to moved a new official to a full varsity schedule after only two years on the board. He was the son of the president of the association. My advice to xxssmen, after you brush up on your writing skills, learn how to BN- that is, if you are as good as your evaluators say you are-which by the way will be the indivduals that you are "leap frogging" over.(Look at it this way, would you like somebody "leap frogging" over you?) My experience in this avocation has been that someone with alot of personality seems to do very well because of the social interaction it requires to be judgmental without it seeming to be. Or in other words, the "my way or the highway"
mentality, seems to work against you as you move up. But, as you intimated before, it does help to know someone (as in mentor).
I will not say that politics do not come into play because they definitely exist and can have a real role in what happens to any one person.

OTOH, I can tell you from my personal experience in two state that you can get opportunities based soley on ability. I moved to a new state this year, into an association with well over 400 officials, I worked a full varsity schedule and will officiate the State 5A boys quarter finals tomorrow night. This is not said to pat myself on the back, but I moved to the state right before the season started (literally) so I had no time to network or get to know anyone prior to the season and I still got what I was looking for out of my schedule. IMO, ability has the most to do with what happens to you. None of us (myself included) are as good as we think we are. Cream does rise to the top.
Good luck! Let us know how the game goes.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 02, 2004, 01:42pm
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Thumbs up

You need to start hanging out with those officials you feel will help you advance. You have to know how to play the game, kiss as*, the whole nine yards. If you play the game, kiss as* you will get better assignments. Take it from someone who knows. I was not a game player and was not going to kiss any as* I thought I could get ahead by my talents and working extra hard. I thought I would be noticed. Then I realized that I was not going to get the higher level games based on my knowledge of the game, or work ethic. I was going to get the higher level games by kissing as*, playing the game. Today I have the higher level varsity games. I can kiss *** with the best of them, and I know how to play the game. I may not be a better offical, but I have become a great as* kisser. I can play the game so will, if the Acadamey gave out an Oscar for as* kissing. I would win the best supporting official.

We call this the homeboy club, and let me tell you I did not want anything to do with it. I have learned you want to be in the homeboy club. As a matter of fact, not to much longer I will be president.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 02, 2004, 01:49pm
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Yeah, but do you know how to kiss a**?

And here I was just trying to make sure I'm in position to make the next call correctly. Now I see I have all these other things I should be worrying about.
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